Hanoi Jane is at it again...

[Janitor]

All of these aging Vietnam era "Baby Boomers" are realizing they are getting old or are old.

Speaking as an aging Vietnam era "Baby Boomer" - Your statment didn't seem at all like an unfounded, rash, generalization. Nope - not one bit.
-

 

[Aguila Blanca]

You know what? She is right. We now train our guys and gals in uniform to be some of the most effective and target discriminating soldiers in history. In fifty years we have gone from fire bombing cities and striking any thing that looks like a target without much question to damn near having to call in for permission before squeezing your rifles trigger.

Well ... maybe.

I'm a Vietnam veteran. How many of the rest of you served in Vietnam?

For those who did ... or were even in service during that period ... did you EVER hear an NCO refer to a citizen of either North or South Vietnam as a "Vietnamese"? Betcha you didn't. The preferred monikers were "gook," "slant," slope," and a few others that have mercifully been eradicated from the memory banks. They were NEVER referred to as "people."

There was a reason for that. If we thought of them as "people" we might be more hesitant to shoot them. The intent, of course, was as described -- to make the soldiers more effective. The problem, though, is what Fonda is talking about. The unintended (but I won't go so far as to say unexpected) side effect was that ANY Vietnamese -- not only the ones on the other side -- were dehumanized. That's what indirectly led to incidents such as My Lai, and that ever-so convenient scapegoat, Lt. William Calley.

I suspect if you were to be able to monitor contemporary training and briefings, the terms "gook" and "slant" would have been replaced by "raghead" and "camel jockey" and would otherwise be indistinguishable from a Vietnam-era version.

I have no love for Hanoi Jane, but her point (this time) is valid.

 

[DonP]

Another movie perhaps?

Her last round of public ranting and accusations coincided closely with the release of Monster-in-Law, which bombed at the box office.

Don't get me wrong, Jane drinks the Kool Aid straight from the tub. But her public appearances and intervioews seem to neatly fit with her self promotions for movies she has coming out.

I think she's little more than a novelty act for the media these days. She says things they want to hear and air and is always good for a sound byte that will fire people up.

FWIW Jane is also a racist pig, conveniently overlooking the estimated 3 million Laotians, Cambodians and Vietnamese that dies after we left. I guess in her world view brown skinned people don't count as casualties of her espoused political positions.

Me, I'm still waiting for the Directors Cut DVD of Barbarella. El Tejon is right, that was her artistic peak.

 

[kahr40]

I have no love for Hanoi Jane, but her point (this time) is valid.

There is a big difference between being trained to shoot to kill in combat and commiting attrocities. Studies after WWII did bring changes in how soldiers where trained because many soldiers admitted they couldn't bring themselves to take a life and either consciously or unconsciously discharged their weapons without aimming [On Killing <i>Lt. Col Dave Grossman</i>] Grossman makes the argument that video games do essentially the same thing now to kids as current military training does to recruits. This isn't a bad thing and doesn't bring them to commit attrocities. Jane Fonda is spinnig and full of the same old...stuff she has always been. As far as it being a secret...yeah right! Read Grossman. He spells it out in his book..

 

[engineer151515]

From Newsmax (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/12/13/234848.shtml):

Tuesday, Dec. 13, 2005 11:45 p.m. EST

Jane Fonda: U.S. Troops Are 'Killing Machines'

"Hanoi Jane" Fonda is claiming that ever since Vietnam, U.S. troops have been trained to commit atrocities against innocent civilians as a matter of military policy.

If that were the case, the troops are doing a poor job - much to the disappointment of the press.

JF is on my select list of people I would refuse to shake hands with. I'd turn my back and walk away.

 

[longeyes]

She's really quite a piece of work. This is really too, too much. She needs to be called out on this everywhere she goes.

 

[Mr. James]

On Killing is ten years old. Guess Hanoi just got around to reading it this month. . .

Someone once posted something about demurring from urinating upon certain subjects if they were aflame. Same applies here.

 

[Unisaw]

What a pathetic attempt on her part to remain relevant.

 

[Pilot]

Speaking as an aging Vietnam era "Baby Boomer" - Your statment didn't seem at all like an unfounded, rash, generalization. Nope - not one bit.
-

HA. I'm not saying they're all like that. I'm a borderline baby boomer myself. But, when you see Hanoi Jane, Joan Biaz, all the media types of that age and the Cindy Sheehans of the world all comparing Iraq to Vietnam, you have to wonder.

I stand by my original premise, but will add, LIBERAL Baby Boomers love to compare Iraq to Vietnam.

 

[TheEgg]

Fonda claims she learned of the policy switch in "secret meetings" she had with military psychologists "who were really worried about what was happening to our combat personnel."

This was of course just after she was beamed up to the mother ship for consultations with the greys.

 

[ReadyontheRight]

Thanks for your service Hawkmoon. And welcome home!

...The preferred monikers were "gook," "slant," slope," and a few others that have mercifully been eradicated from the memory banks. They were NEVER referred to as "people."

There was a reason for that. If we thought of them as "people" we might be more hesitant to shoot them. The intent, of course, was as described -- to make the soldiers more effective. ...

...I suspect if you were to be able to monitor contemporary training and briefings, the terms "gook" and "slant" would have been replaced by "raghead" and "camel jockey" and would otherwise be indistinguishable from a Vietnam-era version.

I would be curious to hear from older vets -- were "Japs", "Krauts" or whatever bad word there is for Koreans (gooks?) used in WW2 and Korean training?

I would also be interested in hearing from current vets. I would suspect that the wording used in training to describe any enemy would be EXTREMELY politically correct these days. Am I wrong?

As far as Fonda is concerned, it sounds like she's trying to get back in the game and make herself relevant again. Yawn.

 

[joab]

One example of teaching our soldoiers to be more effient killing machines was switching to silhouette targets instead of bullseye target.

How dastardly can we get

 

[mbs357]

U.S. Troops Are 'Killing Machines'

I thought that was the whole idea.

 

[Nanook]

A while back, I saw something that was perfect. Hanoi Jane urinal targets.

Every Vietnam vet I mentioned them to got a tickle out of those.

 

[Phyphor]

She's really quite a piece of work. This is really too, too much. She needs to be called out on this everywhere she goes.

Replace the word 'work' with another four-letter word (I'm sure you can guess) then I'll totally agree... :banghead: