Hard decision coming up

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bobs1066

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Here's the deal: there was this guy at work whose armatures were wound too tight. A couple of months ago, he sent some vaguely threatening emails to everybody in the support department. Those were forwarded to the boss & nothing much happened. Well, he got fired this past Friday.
I'd never before worked with anybody that I thought was a real candidate for going postal. This guy changed that.
I have a very bad feeling about this guy & am pretty sure that the do-nothing company I work for is not going to take the sensible precaution of getting an armed rent-a-cop to watch the front door for a while.
I'm in a non-CCW state, the company has a no-weapons policy.
Should I just think happy thoughts & hope nothing happens or take responsibilty for my own safety and go to work packing for a few days?
 
I would express my concerns and observations to the "Boss" or other appropreate people.

If some thing were to happen you could always set back and say "I tried to warn you or I told you so." etc for what it would be worth.

but if you say nothing to your fellow workers or boss and someone was injured or killed how would you feel knowing that you did not warn them of a pending threat. etc.

Also watch your back.

Vern
 
How about offering to sue the boss if something happens and no effort was made to provide some sort of security for the employees??;)
 
I have already expressed my concerns to the boss. She may astonish me by listening and taking appropriate action.
For what it's worth, the way the office is arranged, I would be one of the first people crazy boy would see if he came in shooting.
 
I can't advocate breaking the law...

but in your case I would choose the course of action that best allowed me personal security. It's up to you to decide what that means.

I would certainly take your concerns to the bosses and ask what their plans are to ensure the security of yourself and coworkers in light of the threats this former employee made.

Depending on your line of work, and how bad you estimate the threat to be, concealable body armor might be an option for a couple weeks. Level II will stop most handgun rounds and is fairly easy to conceal. Check local laws before purchasing. Also with armor, the stuff is expensive but if you only wore it for a couple weeks it could resold with minimal loss on an internet auction.

Good luck.
 
Be very careful. MO and KS both have had a rash of workplace shootings lately. There was one in St Louis on Friday. This guy might be ... 'inspired' by those and try it. There was a shooting in Kansas City, KS just a couple months ago.

I would defineately tell your boss. Maybe even call in on Monday and say you fear for your safety and don't want to come in. Why? Unfortunately if you did take a weapon to work, and nothing happens...and you get discovered....you're out of a job. Even more unfortunately, with KS's attitude towards guns if something DID happen, and you reacted....I bet you'll still have some explaining to do, even if you did help resolve the issue, peaceful or other wise.

(All disclaimers apply to this message. I am not a lawyer, cop, or clergy man)


Good Luck!!! Watch your back, and I'd still say maybe burn some vacation days if you got 'em.
 
Definitely, express your concerns to the appropriate people, though it probably won't do much.

You should also carry, despite the company's no weapons policy. Choose a pistol that won't print easily, so the chances of you being "made" are minimal.

If you get caught, that's unfortunate.

But I'd rather spend a day looking for a new job than resting in a morgue.
 
Got any vacation time you can burn?

What I would do:

Draft letters to your boss, HR and the CEO, stating your concerns about the fellow. Send via postal mail for return receipt verificaiton, along with a copy to the legal counsel of your choice. Should something bad happen, this is evidence that you AND your employer were aware of the risk and put the employer in a bad light for future law-suits.

Look about the workplace, mental inventory of items that can be used as to distract the nut-case while you make your escape. Clouds of toner from the printer/copier, scalding coffee in the face, that sorts of stuff. You'd not be trying to take the guy down, just delay him enough to get out.

Start looking about for another place to work. Being unemployed is a darn sight better than being a statistic in a workplace shooting.
 
If it were me, I'd do whatever I needed to do to to give myself and my coworkers a chance for survival. I wouldn't want to be one of those poor folks or see my coworkers end up as those folks you read about in the papers who end up taking their last breath hiding, begging and praying under their desks. Now, that's just me. Who am I and what do I know?

Make sure that you understand clearly and right now that if a worse case scenario goes down, the company (and possibly the state) *will very likely* make you a scapegoat if you break any of their rules or any laws. The unfortunate fact of life is people who take a responsibility to defend themselves are very rarely seen as good guys in our society.

Watch your six, trust no one, and be very careful.
 
Depending on your line of work, and how bad you estimate the threat to be, concealable body armor might be an option for a couple weeks. Level II will stop most handgun rounds and is fairly easy to conceal. Check local laws before purchasing. Also with armor, the stuff is expensive but if you only wore it for a couple weeks it could resold with minimal loss on an internet auction.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but is "a couple weeks" long enough? Crazy Boy could simmer and stew for a year, then come back.
 
Yeah, but is "a couple weeks" long enough? Crazy Boy could simmer and stew for a year, then come back.
Click to expand...

True. It's all up to personal decisions and gut feeling.

Anyone happen to know how long it typically is between firing and "the snap" in most cases?
 
Pretty tough position to be in. I tend to agree with Sindawe about a formal written notice to the company and you might suggest that management hold a conference with the staff to address this issue. How many people in the office are aware of this guy's firing and a potential to come back and cause trouble?

If it was me (and I'm not a lawyer and I can't afford to stay in a Holiday Inn :D ) I would not carry a firearm in the office. As mentioned, if you got caught, you would probably get fired and somebody may even call the local PD if they saw a gun and got scared because of this lunatic that got canned.

Should you get arrested for carrying a concealed weapon and KS later passed a CCW law, then the chances of you getting one would be pretty slim if you had a conviction for illegal carry.

Situational awareness is probably the most important thing at this point. If management won't take any formal steps like adding a security guard (armed or not), then it's important that all of the staff are aware of the potential of this guy coming back and causing trouble. Is there a picture of him that can be handed out to staff and even posted in common areas or with a receptionist if you have one? Do you carry a cell phone on you so you can call 911 if you see him? Maybe all those who have cell phones should have them on their person at all times.

How open is the office area? Do you have some form of access control like card entry or push-button security locks on doors? Some form of physical security may be the best defense for awhile.

Your safety is a management issue regardless of how the boss apparently doesn't want to spend extra company funds. If the staff get behind a demand for increased security based on fear for their safety, then good management will act.

Have you thought about alternative defensive weapons? Knife, Asp, a baseball bat at your desk? Pepper spray or even CS gas? Some of these may be perfectly legal in KS so look into things like that.
 
Years ago I got caught in a similar situation. At the time I was teaching a night course at a college. The threats were not 'documented' like email; the party involved verbally threatened the entire staff and specifically, those co-workers in his department, during an interview. Turned out to be his termination interview.

I was a candidate being reviewed for his job, not yet even an employee of the college. This was a career change for me; I wanted out of the permanent professional work, and wanted to teach instead. He threatened me and the other night teacher by name (I was a graduate of the program I was to teach, and well known to the former employee. The head of the department told me all this during my hiring interview, and also stated the county and school district's policy regarding weapons carry on campus. In this case, the threats were taken seriously, and supposedly, the police interviewed and detained the former teacher for a very short time.

I decided not to depend on police response time, and carried CCW (including a vest) for about 3 or 4 months; nothing came of the matter nor my conduct. Rumor had it that had that former instructor decided to instigate an incident, there were several on campus who were vested and packed, but that was only rumor; no one ever questioned anyone else about their defensive condition. I doubt whether anyone at your workplace will either, if your CCW isn't 'made'. In my case, I'd rather be looking for a new job than be a sitting duck.
 
Notice most of the replies

won't save your life? Paperwork, lawsuits AFTER the fact. Baaah!
YOU are responsible for your own safety, illegal or not I advocate you carrying a gun to work, simple answer.
Don't tell anyone and tah's that. Better to be fired than dead! Isn't it unlikely you will be found out?
CT
 
In Kansas you can CCW on your private property or your "place of business"* ... I always interpreted that to mean where I worked.

Also, its just a minor misdemeanor.


As for the company, two cliches:
Concealed means concealed.
and
Don't ask, don't tell



Edited to add:[/]
*Source
21-4201
Chapter 21.--CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
PART II.--PROHIBITED CONDUCT
Part 2.--Prohibited Conduct
Article 42.--CRIMES AGAINST THEPUBLIC SAFETY

21-4201. Criminal use of weapons. (a) Criminal use of weapons is knowingly:
(4) carrying any pistol, revolver or other firearm concealed on one's person except when on the person's land or in the person's abode or fixed place of business;
Click to expand...
 
Unfortunately this may not be over in a week or two.

I heard recently of a fellow that came back to his former place of employment a year after he was fired and shot up the place. As others have suggested you need to make sure managment takes this serously. Beyound that you will be on your own so stay cautious.
 
I believe you need to document your concerns—and I mean on paper, not just by E-mail. I believe it would be worth your while to share those concerns with your elected misrepresentatives. Sooner or later, Kansas will grow up and recognize the right of law-abiding Kansas citizens to keep and bear arms.

I won't publicly advocate breaking the law.
 
If you are one of the first "crazy boy" would see, is there anyway to arrange your desk/work area to provide you with a veiw of where he would be coming from.

Would a mirror or two be placed in the right spots help you look over your shoulder. any thing to give you a little early warning if he was in the area.?

I would diffenately have a plan in place for any given senario that may transpire.

Also expressing concern to local police should be done. How ever they in all probability say "We can not do anything unless he does something besides talk."etc etc

Vern
 
Can you get his address? Would he remember you? Were you nice to him while he was there?

If the answers are all yes then this is worth the effort.

1. Send him a very nice note/sympathy card telling him that you are sorry he got fired, that you feel he got a raw deal and that you always liked him. Give him your number and tell him to call you if you can help him.

If you are "on his side" you have a much better chance of surviving any unpleasant scenario, and it's possible that if you stay in distant contact with him he might give you clues before he does something. Distant contact is the key--it's very dangerous to mess with crazy peopleup close and better not to mess with them at all any more than you have to.

2. See if you can get him a good job--preferably someplace far away at a company that you don't care much about.

If he's working at a good job he's much less likely to plot revenge.

As for carrying, you will have to make your own decision. Only you know exactly what the cost might be and only you know if you can afford to pay that cost.
 
How about all three?

Definitely let your bosses/CEO/HR people aware of your concerns, and try to get as many co-workers to support you and express their concerns to upper management as well. It should send a clear signal to them to obtain some sort of professional protection (i.e. armed security professional).

Body armor: Although the most concealable body armor is quite expensive, it's much more comfortable to wear and therefore you'll actually WEAR it, rather than take it off in two hours because it became too uncomortable. Level II is the best option. It might bulk with dress clothes (unless you buy and wear over-sized shirts) but it's better than fighting for your life on the OR table. Warning: even with trauma plates, God forbid you do take a hit, it WILL leave one heck of a bruise on your torso for a few weeks.

Handgun at work: I agree with others that concealed carry means CARRY CONCEALED. After dealing with the same type of "postal worker-type" employee at a former workplace, I grabbed my IWB holster and CCWed up until my last day of employment there, because the shoddy management of the company couldn't prevent workplace injuries properly, let alone some crazed psychopath from shooting up the place. I figured if I got discovered and fired over it, at least I lived to get fired.

I'd definitely consider all your options, and choose the one that best meets the compromise between moral/legal obligations and the personal obligation to your safety.
 
The paper trail idea is a good one and would be one of the first things I would do.

If you decide to go the body armor route, this may allow you to easily conceal a small handgun as well. Think j-frame .38 or Kel-Tec 9mm/P3AT. I have carried all three of those in the left armpit of my body armor and no one could ever tell. I am not advocating breaking the law or company policy, but this is an option should you decide to go that route.


W
 
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