has anyone ever actually had to shoot/shoot at a person?

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bhhacker

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I know theres a lot of caliber debates but I am looking for first hand experience...I dont want to try and glorify any of this or anything, but if anyone would be willing to come forward with first hand experience regarding stopping power of a particular caliber, it would be most appreciative. (IE location of shot, how quickly were they incapacitated, etc)
 
I agree that this might be a touchy subject for most.

but no, i have not shot or shot at anyone with a gun larger than a bb gun. and that was with friends playing cops and robbers when we were very young
 
I knew this would be a touchy subject, but people have the right to read and not post so they would be passing the information freely. I am not doing this for shock value or anything like that, I just always see information on ballistic gels and such, but never any realistic reviews on self defense situations.
 
Try "WWW.STOPPINGPOWER.NET"
One of these days i'll learn to use a computer proper.
 
With all due respect, there are other avenues to figure out ballistic information without asking this question. Shooting at and/or hitting someone is something my friends who have done it wish not to rehash, particularly on a public forum.

Unless you know someone who will share the details in person with you, I recommend you reconsider your question. Asking for details is very personal, and while I understand your 'educational inquiry' standpoint, I find this thread in poor taste.
 
How about shooting at muzzle flashes of south Pilipino rebels while hanging out the side of a CH53 with a 240G?

I know I made at least 7-8 flashes stop.
 
Hmm

This should probably be in general gun or...

Anyways, my mother had to shoot at someone when she was 19ish. Somebody was trying to kick in her apartment door to get at her and her room mate. Several shots through the door with a 22 pistol prevented that. Better than a pointy stick.

I always forget about this incident when people try to make the argument that self defense is a myth.
 
.50 cal
100 rounds of it
250 meters

And if you ask that question to someones face, you better be ready for the possible response my friend. I, personally, would have tried to forcibly rearrange your thinking.

Not a good topic. Too many people with bad memories. Find another site with data on it. End of story.
 
In the 6+ years I've been hanging around Internet forums I have seen that question at least 50 times. I assume it is asked out of a genuine sense of curiosity and not meant to start something ugly.

The fact is that very, very few people are ever actually involved in a gun fight outside of military service during wartime. I recall reading that some really high percentage of police officers never draw their weapons.

I happened to work in some high risk jobs as a younger man. I worked as a bouncer in a biker bar (now THAT was interesting) and I worked the late shift in a convenience store as a college student. As a result I got tangled up with violent criminals from time to time. I drew my gun a couple of times, did the hand to hand on one occasion, got sent to the ER once after being clubbed from behind, and one time I sent an armed robber to the morgue. All of this happened over 30 years ago and if I had it to do over again I wouldn't. It was not fun.

I have talked about my experiences with acquaintances and I have discussed them once or twice in an Internet forum. I don't brag about what happened but I don't mind discussing the experiences for educational purposes. There are lessons to be learned from such stories.

Some folks called me a liar when I posted some of the tales. That angered me but I realized that there is absolutely nothing I can do about it if someone chooses to think I am being untruthful.

As long as these types of forums exist questions like this will be raised. I guess each man must decide how to respond. For most people the answer is simply, no. If it's yes, then you decide whether to discuss the matter.
 
I've seen the effects of 7.62 NATO to the head. Complete, immediate incapacitation. Truly catastrophic tissue damage as well. The round came from a 240B at a distance of less than 100 meters.
 
When I was in elementary school our janitor was a WWII vet, really nice guy every one loved him. He told us war stories but they were VERY general. One day I asked him if he ever killed anybody , he kinda got "the look " in his eye then he said "Oh let's don't talk about that." and changed the subject. His name was Mr. McMurray and he deserves to be remembered.

Taking a human life isn't something anybody does lightly, unless there's really something wrong W/ them.

I've been in the OPs shoes ( see above) I didn't know any better, he didn't know any better. I want to say this as tactfully as possible; If you feel that this thread is inappropriate please don't participate. If you find that this thread brings back memories that you'd rather not deal W/ again you are free to refrain from participating.

I personally have never fired anything other than a 155 mm howitzer at another human being. There is a definite one shot stop potential there
 
Thanks for some of the positive postings, like I mentioned before, this isnt to stir up a bunch of dirt, I just wanted to know about the stopping power of a handgun in real life, and figured a forum would be an ok place to ask...Its a lot less confrontational than real life and to be honest, I dont even know many gun owners in my circle of friends. I know its uncouth to ask that question in person, but on these forums you have the ability and right to read on and not reply.

I've never hunted, never shot at anything more than paper. I have no experience seeing what ANY bullet would do when it hit something actually solid. Im just a guy who would like some real life data in my research for personal protection.

If someone doesn't want to post it publicly, you can PM me as well if that helps.
 
There are books written about this. You can browse your bookstores in the History/Military section or you can do a search at Amazon or Barnesand Noble.

As for me, I have been shot at before, and while the 9mm pistol in my hand had a very high "one shot stop %", the tube artillery dropping around me didn't seem to understand that. Second time, I had a rifle, but then so did everyone else.
 
I agree that this is a sensitive subject for most of us who have been through it.

I have often avoided this question, and I have also answered it honestly many times, but I have never threatened anyone who has asked. I'd say that threatening to 'forcefully rearrange someone's thinking' is bit harsh and likely to get you incarcerated.

My first experience with a shooting death other than animals was my best friend in second grade. I wasn't present when it happened, but I lost a friend, and my innocence. His own father wigged out and to killed him with a shotgun. The guy tried to kill his older brother, and his younger sister, too, but they managed to get out of the house.

The kids had barricaded themselves in the bedroom by tipping the bed against the door. The father shot through the door and the bed and killed my friend while the older brother (who was still in grade school himself) was lowering the little sister out the window. The older brother then, seeing his brother dead, jumped out the window and ran into the nearby woods with the sister to hide from the father. The father managed to get into the the room and found his youngest son dead by his own hand, and his other children gone. He then put the 12 gauge into his mouth and pulled the trigger.

That was my first real lesson that those adults trusted to care for children aren't always to be trusted.

The second time I was actually present for the event. My older sister and I were at her friend's house. I was twelve, my sister was fourteen, her friend was fifteen, and his sister was thirteen. While we were there his sister came out of her parents bedroom with a S&W .357. I asked them to put the pistol away because it wasn't a toy. All of the others, including my sister, laughed at me for "being a baby". I told them to put it away or I would leave. The brother and sister begun pointing the weapon at each other and saying bang, that sort of thing.

I was just getting up to leave when the sister laughed and said her brother, and I'll never forget this, "I'm going to shoot you."

The brother replied, "I dare you."

I turned to tell her not to point the gun at him just as she pulled the trigger. The gun was loaded and his brains ended up on the wall behind the chair he was sitting in.

Maybe that's why I had an irrational dislike of the distinctive look of the Smith & Wesson for so long. I guess maybe it is human nature to tend to blame the object in such a circumstance.

I had to shoot people when I was in combat. I used mostly an M-16 but had a couple of instances with a 1911. Both worked quite well. I have no problem relying on the stopping power of a .45 acp. I have also done my job up close and personal with a knife. It's not something I'm proud of, it just is.

The only firefight I have been in since I got out of the military happened when I was working as a currier. I had four guys try and take the bag I was carrying. They had 9mms and I had a Ruger Redhawk .44mag. They went for spray and pray, I kept my cool and place my shots fairly well. Two of them died, and the other two fled in their car. Once that .44 started barking and two of them fell the others didn't like the odds, I guess. I only fired three shots.

They found the car less than two miles away. One of my rounds had apparently gone through one of the bad guys and hit the cylinder head causing the engine to lose its vital fluids. The Buick bled to death a short time later and the remaining bad guys fled on foot. As far as I know they were never caught.

I've also had to brandish my weapon a couple of times and both times the idiots who had threatened me suddenly remembered an appointment they were late for.

Self defense using a firearm is no myth. If it were, firearms would have gone the way of the dinosaur. Behavior that doesn't work goes extinct, especially if it gets you dead.
 
To make this the purely academic caliber war that it should be, let me offer this.

More animals (including elk) have been poached & more humans have been killed by .22s than any other caliber out there.

I would bet that 9mm is running a close second.

If you have to shoot, you aim center mass & shoot till their on the ground.
 
This topic has come up on this forum many times.

Do a forum search for phrases like "used your gun" or "had to draw" or similiar phrases. Do a little digging here and you'll find the old threads.
 
I can tell the story of the one that impacted me the most.

We were at 29 Palms, doing a CAX or Combined Arms Exercise. We just got off the range with our vehicles (AAVP7A1 Amphibious Assualt Vehicle) and were getting everything unloaded and ready to turn the guns in and clean them.

Our turret holds a Mk19 40mm grenade launcher and an M2 .50 cal. While the M2 can be removed from the turret in one piece, it's easier to remove the barrel from outside the turret and then slide the receiver out from inside the turret.

To remove the barrel from the M2 the weapon must be charged back a little bit in order to do so. We have a special charging handle mounted on the side of our M2s because of them being turret mounted. It's essentially a wire with a big J hook on the end of it. A bad habit most of us had was holding the J hook against the handles of the M2 and rotating it around the handle. This made it very easy to charge it back just that little bit it required to remove the barrel.

I was on top of my vehicle waiting for my crewman to pull the mounting pins from our 40 mm. The vehicles on either side of me were removing their weapons at the same time. All of a sudden I heard a loud bang and saw a red and green blur out of the corner of my eye.

This was when I first experienced the "slow down" associated with a stressful situation. The first thing that ran through my mind was I was just shot by my own 40mm grenade launcher. I don't know why I thought that, but I did. I ran through everything in my head. It didn't have time to arm. I now have a 40mm hole in my torso. My wife is going to be pissed. Oh my god, my wife...why don't I hurt?. Wait...that wasn't a 40mm that was a .50 cal....All in about a milisecond.

I looked over to the vehicle to the left of mine and saw the crewman trying to get out of the turret. I've never seen human eyes that big. I knew then what had happened. I jumped over to their vehicle, looked over the turret side and saw the crewchief laying on the ground and yelled for the corpsman and jumped down to him.

There wasn't anything I could do. There wasn't anything anyone could do. He had an inch hole in the front of his chest and what seemed like an exit wound about the side of a softball on his back. I never saw it, just felt it.

He was unscrewing the barrel, standing in front of it to do so. His crewman wrapped the J hook around the grip like we all do but he accidently hit the triggers trying to do so. The weapon wasn't properly cleared at the range and still had a round in the chamber. The red and green blur I saw out of the corner of my eye was him. We wear green nomex suits. The red was the blood spray.

The strange thing is that I don't remember his crewman's face, only those eyes coming out of the turret. I don't remember the face of the corpsman even though he was barking instructions at me. I also don't remember the face of the crewchief even though he died while me and the corpsman worked on him.

The only face I remember from that was a week later when we had his memorial service. I distinctly remember the face of his pregnant wife and the face of his son holding his mother's hand running up the isle of the church to get out of there because she couldn't bear hearing taps played. I don't think I'll ever forget that.

If the OP must know, he was shot in the upper chest. Directly in between his nipples. He was incapacitated immediately and was technically dead instantaneously. The corpsman informed me latter that his heart whether from the round itself or the muzzle blast was pretty much vaporized. But we've never debated teh stopping power of the .50 cal even at range let alone taking one at half an arms length from the muzzle.
 
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