has anyone ever actually had to shoot/shoot at a person?

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I carried a Colt M357 with 6" barrel my first tour in Viet Nam as an adviser. I used it twice, both one-shot kills.

I have also used an M1 Garand, a BAR, a Browning M2 HB .50 cal MG and an M14 sniper rifle (pre M21.)
 
Even if someone here did shoot at another person, one incident doesn't exactly give you a statistical basis for a conclusion anyway.
 
I always find the negative reactions to the question a bit contrived. If you don't want to talk about it, then don't, but nobody's buying the "mysterious and moody survivor with a past" bit. :cool:
 
I've never had to, but I'm surrounded by those who have in military and LEO rolls. None of them care to sit around the table and speak of such things. I've only heard the tales late at night in hushed voices when they try to kill those demons. I've only known one person who used a gun in self defense during civilian life. And old fella that looked like easy prey to a couple of teen ruffians. But training and awareness are pretty nifty to have on your side. He was carrying a SA 32mag, hardly the tacticool weapon most of us prefer.
 
No real experience here; though, the reality is often sad. My Dad often spoke of ordering the deaths of some Japanese suicide bombers swimming toward their LCI (G).
Best,
Rob
 
My father did, in war. (Japanese soldiers, on Peleliu. He was wounded by grenade fragments in a leg and got a Purple Heart.) He said he felt no real regret, just doing a dirty job, and that they had no qualms about killing him..

There is no way to predict for certain, but I would hope that if it came down to the attacker's life or mine, I would feel the same way. If I mistakenly shot someone or if a missed shot hit an innocent bystander ... well, I will just keep that to myself.
 
Col. Jeff Cooper wrote a good deal about this from first hand experance.
He states that the .45 ACP 230gr. ball or HP is the best fight stopper. No one has ever fought back after a torso hit with a .45 (Coopers words)however there a number of examples of people hit with a 9mm up to 21 times and fought back and didn't die.(Coopers words)
 
I attended two shootings up close and personal. Both were resolved in a very decisive manner. Rounds fired at both were department issued .38 lead RNs. In one incident, perp was shot in the right tear duct. He died before hitting the ground. In second incident, perp was shot COM. The bullet hit his heart,lung and spinal cord. He died as he hit the ground. While I was within a couple of armslengths of both shooter and perps in both incidents, I was not the shooter.

In the first incident, shooter was a 20 year veteran cop who had never fired a shot in anger. He was visibly shaken and had bad memories of the incident. In the second incident, the shooter was a 2 year veteran cop who did a tour in VN as a grunt with the 173d airborne. His reaction was "glad I smoked the ******* before he raped or robbed somebody else. Both were heartfelt reactions, just different points of view and prior experience.
 
Killermonkey said: "And if you ask that question to someones face, you better be ready for the possible response my friend. I, personally, would have tried to forcibly rearrange your thinking."

Wow, Killermonkey, you are dangerous and shouldn't be allowed to carry a firearm. You need to overcome your anger and control issues.

This man has every right to ask the question. Nobody is required to even read the thread.
 
SgtWaldo said (qouting Cooper): "No one has ever fought back after a torso hit with a .45."

That may be the dumbest thing I've heard. Do you mean to tell me, that in all the world, there has never been a case where someone was hit in the torso with a .45 ACP bullet and still fought back? I don't believe that for one second. That is a pathetic claim. I don't think Jeff Cooper is very smart.
 
I understand Cooper's respect for the .45 -- especially compared to its replacement -- but roundnose bullets have a lousy reputation as stoppers, regardless of caliber, so don't see why the ACP should be any different.
 
Cowssurf; Col.Cooper was speaking from personal experiance.
"Pathetic claim"? You ever hear of someone fighting back after a hit with the .45?
 
"Handgun Stopping Power" contains a write-up of someone who took six rounds of .45 hardball in the torso and went on to kill his assailant and then walk to the hospital for treatment.

Granted, the .45 boys don't accept anything written in "Handgun Stopping Power", but there you go.
 
SgtWaldo,

Do you really believe that in the whole world, no one has ever fought back after getting shot in the torso with a .45? Do you really believe that? I wonder about the powers of reasoning of someone who could believe that. There have been a lot of torso hits with .45s over the years.
 
Actually, the most convincing anecdote I've heard came from Hamilton Bowen, who wrote of shooting a ground squirrel center-of-mass with a .50 Special; 325 grain roundnose at ACP velocities. I don't remember the exact quote, but there was something about a "dogged foot chase" and a "coup de grace".
 
"Handgun stopping power" refers to the "energy" inparted and has been proved to be unrealiable. A 115gr 9mm +p+ has 505fp of energy, the .45 230gr 425fp of energy. In police shootings to date the .45 has a 100% fight stopping record, the 9 dosn't.
Go figure
 
"Handgun Stopping Power" also contains anecdotes, which have nothing to do with energy, statistics, or anything else. I am sure there are people who argue that everything in the book is a lie, but again, that's neither here nor there.

The argument that the .45 has never failed to stop an assailant in a shootout with police is so, well, silly that it hardly merits response. I think the ACP is a great cartridge, but it does not have any magical properties.
 
when i was about 7 my dad was putting his holster 1911 45acp on his belt when it went off shooting him in the groin and exiting in lower buttocks. he was able to walk to the truck 100yards with no help. FWIW
 
SgtWaldo says: "In police shootings to date the .45 has a 100% fight stopping record, the 9 dosn't."

I am astounded. Sarge, I don't believe that for a second. I am truly surprised you do. 100%! Unreal. Unreal. I don't believe you at all. Not at all.
 
Col. Cooper was most probably speaking from his own experience, which I dare say would trump 99.9% of the posters on this board. But as any decent writer he was prone to exageration. I doubt if even he believed that no-one had ever fought back after a 45 hit. To believe that would be guilble. But to believe that Col. Cooper wasn't very smart? That's just down right not paying attention to history.
 
I have no doubt the .45 has failed to stop a fight. In actual police shootings it hasn't. No magical properties. It's a function of mass.

I'm not picking a fight, so to speak, but if you have a choice, are you telling me you would carry anything less than the best you have?

Think about it, half the weight is just as good as the whole.
 
sgtwaldo said:
You ever hear of someone fighting back after a hit with the .45?
Click to expand...

Yes. In a police shooting. I wasn't there, but a guy I know and have trusted with my life was.
 
SgtWaldo: "I have no doubt the .45 has failed to stop a fight. In actual police shootings it hasn't."

First off SgtWaldo, don't worry about picking a fight. I am very thick-skinned. I take none of what you say personally. And I certainly don't consider this a fight. And if we called it an argument, that wouldn't bother me at all. I think it is important to have substantive discussions about all manner of topics. And for something to be substantive, a lot of times, it follows there will be disagreement. I take no offense, and I hope you don't either. I mean none.

With regards to the above quote, I still don't believe you. I just can't believe it. I really believe that out of all the police shootings with the .45 ACP there has been at least one torso hit that failed to stop an attacker. In fact, I would be completely surprised, totally nonplussed, to find out there had been only one. I imagine there have been more. I think the .45 ACP is a formidable round. But I don't think for one second it has a 100% stopping rate in police shootings.
 
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