Has defensive ammo changed a lot in the last 30 years?

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RLHIII

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I'm looking to buy a new carry gun. Smaller and lighter than what I have now.
30+ year ago I knew a man that was shot 3 times with a .38 and beat the crap out of the guy that shot him, The following week, I traded my 9mm toward a 10mm, and my .38 toward a 44 special.
I was thinking about getting a .40, But 9mm would be cheaper to shoot and of the guns I'm looking at, the one I like the most only comes in 9mm.
So the question is: Is 9mm defensive ammo much better than it was 30 years ago?
 
Now it's too expensive to practice with as much as you should and availability is spotty.
welcome to the forum BTW
 
Yes there have been leaps and bounds of improvement in bullet technology over the last 30 years. The FBI incident in Miami in 1986 lead to HWFE which lead to the FBI protocol of testing that all bullet manufacturers work to.
 
9mm is much better than it used to be. I would happily carry a 9mm gun, if I wasn't perfectly content with my 45s.
 
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yes, modern ammunition has progressed in 30 years, especially in the areas of expansion, penetration and weight retention. Nowadays, the humble .380 is considered by some to be a viable defensive round with the right ammo, and effective shooter.

One thing that hasn't changed in 30 years is the importance of shot placement. Over 30 years ago I saw a .38 kill a man wth one shot, and paralyze a second man with the second shot. A poorly placed 10mm modern defensive projectile is probably less effective than a well placed .38 semi-wad cutter.

I think many would agree that more important than modern vs old-style ammo or larger vs smaller caliber, is the ability to effectively put the round where it needs to go. Only then does the importance of bullet construction and diameter come into play.
 
Thanks for the replies.

I have no problem putting all of my shots center of mass at 7-10 yrds.

For years my thinking has been bigger is better. But now it's time for a smaller lighter carry gun.
 
That old can of worms. The 9mm is the most common used handgun caliber world wide, for a LONG TIME. I would think its not because it sucks (except in America, where everyone knows its becomes ineffective and you need a 45 or MAYBE a 40- anything else is signing you're own death warrant- ask the "experts"). BTW- did you know that failure to stop an attacker with a caliber other than a 45 is due to the failing of that caliber, but a failure with a 45 is always due to drugs or a "fluke"? As far as ammunition, yes, it constantly gets better and is improved as time goes on, just like everything else for the most part. IMO, people obsess way too much over data, gel tests, etc., and spend way too much time and energy "researching" via the internet and tacti-cool gun magazines in search of the "holy grail" of rounds that will guaranty stopping an aggressor so efficiently that it will actually take less than 1 round to accomplish. My advice is to practice with whatever gun you shoot the best as much as possible (using "cheap FMJ ammo) , quickly and accurately. Buy some dang hollow points from a reputable American manufacturer that you know will function reliably in YOUR gun, know where to aim and practice accordingly, and understand that it may take more than 1 round from ANY handgun to end a fight (lucky they hold more than 1, right?) and move on.
 
RLHIII said:
Thanks for the replies.

I have no problem putting all of my shots center of mass at 7-10 yrds.

For years my thinking has been bigger is better. But now it's time for a smaller lighter carry gun.
Click to expand...
Be advised that there are small 40's and 45's available if you prefer a bigger bullet.
 
So what exactly are these new "improvements"?

Bonded? a little plastic thingy? What makes the $1.00 a round ammo superior to the old JHP sold in 50 round boxes?
 
Yes, the difference between defensive ammo is day and night compared to 30 years ago. 9mm is a lot better than it was in the 80's and .40 is better than it was in the 90's. I was going to say since you live in New York to get .40 as you can't go over 10 rounds in a magazine, but since you want smaller and lighter, go with the 9mm. All single stack 9mm > single stack .40's and this is coming from a .40 S&W fanboy.

The carry market pretty much revolves around 9mm, thus you're bound to find a load that fits your performance needs and your budget.
 
"Be advised that there are small 40's and 45's available if you prefer a bigger bullet."

Originally I was looking at a Sig Ultra .45 , but still would like something smaller. Then I got to looking at HK's. I really like them!
For a week or 2 I was going back and forth between the P2000sk and the P30sk, The P2000sk I could get in 9mm or .40 but it doesn't have a safety. The P30sk seems a little nicer but is only out in 9mm. hence my original question.
 
So what exactly are these new "improvements"?
Click to expand...
Well, how about JHP pistol ammo for starters.

In 1970, your choice of .45 ACP bullets was 230 grain FMJ- RN.
Your choice in 9mm was 115 or 124 grain FMJ-RN.
Your choice in 380 ACP was 95 grain FMJ-RN.

It was about 30 years ago before Lee Juris and his Super-Vel company first introduced JHP pistol ammo, and forced the big three to play catch-up and offer it too.

The first generation JHP's did not reliably expand, clogged on clothing, and blew up on hard stuff like auto glass.

The second generation, including the Win Silver-Tip and Federal Hydro-Shock were much more reliable in expansion.

Today's third generation bullets include thin skived jackets, internal flutes to promote expansion, and bonded cores or plated jackets (Speer Gold Dot) to prevent bullet blow-up on hard targets.
Along with almost guaranteed expansion.

So today's pistol bullets are a vast improvement over what was available 30-40 years ago.

rc
 
One of the main improvements that I have seen is hollowpoint bullet performance in smaller calibers at lower velocities. 9mm used to be a marginal round but is now considered adequate by many.
 
rcmodel said:
Well, how about JHP pistol ammo for starters.

In 1970, your choice of .45 ACP bullets was 230 grain FMJ- RN.
Your choice in 9mm was 115 or 124 grain FMJ-RN.
Your choice in 380 ACP was 95 grain FMJ-RN.

It was about 30 years ago before Lee Juris and his Super-Vel company first introduced JHP pistol ammo, and forced the big three to play catch-up and offer it too.

The first generation JHP's did not reliably expand, clogged on clothing, and blew up on hard stuff like auto glass.

The second generation, including the Win Silver-Tip and Federal Hydro-Shock were much more reliable in expansion.

Today's third generation bullets include thin skived jackets, internal flutes to promote expansion, and bonded cores or plated jackets (Speer Gold Dot) to prevent bullet blow-up on hard targets.
Along with almost guaranteed expansion.

So today's pistol bullets are a vast improvement over what was available 30-40 years ago.

rc
Click to expand...
Very helpful Thanks. Kinda what I was looking for.
 
What RCModel said.

Hollow point - excuse me, "controlled expansion" - bullets tend to actually expand in a controlled manner better than they did in the 'ago'. I gather that from reports of testing, and actual bullets from this and that.

Without question in my somewhat cynical mind is some of this (not sure how much) is hype from ammunition makers with a 'new' bullet and the gun writers who's livelihood depend on advertising revenue. (Yeah, I'm a bit suspicious.)

All I really want to say is this: The really good, trick ammo is more expensive (from a bit to a lot) than 'regular' ammo. However, most of the really great ammo has something which will shoot the same weight bullet at the same velocity in a cheaper offering. Or, as a reloader, one can duplicate the same recoil, report, bullet drop and registration of the 'high priced' ammo.

Use that for most practice or competition (if you use your 'real' gun for competition).

There are any number of people who say "Only shoot what you really carry when you practice". There is some value in this. Early hollow-point ammunition does not always function (especially in a semi-auto pistol) just like FMJ or even RNL. Even with revolvers, some high performance ammunition doesn't work with speed loaders the same as RNL bullets. So one must certainly test and function check one's sidearm with the carry ammunition.

But for ordinary practice and such, the cheaper duplicate is more comfortable to my wallet.
 
Yes, we have MUCH better expanding bullets now. Yet some people still cling to the same old crappy Hydra-Shoks that we had in the 80's. Sorry, but they're a thoroughly obsolete design. I have NO idea why anyone still uses them.
 
Think I've finaly decided.

HK P30sks 9mm V3 DA/SA Ambi safety, Rear decocker, w/tritium night sights.

Corbon 115 DPX or Corbon JHP +P

Thank you all for the replies!!:)
 
Yes, defensive ammo has changed a lot. The premium bullets all penetrate 12-16 or so inches in ballistic gel through 4 layers of denim and expand to more than .50 caliber regardless of chambering.

That said, you can still shoot someone 3 times to the chest (with any caliber and ammo) and they can beat you to death...even after a heart shot, a person has 7-30s of conscious voluntary control left.

So, the best bullets do a lot better job of reliably making it to the vitals with expansion and w/o over-penetration, but that doesn't change operator shot placement or human physiology.
 
RLHIII said:
So the question is: Is 9mm defensive ammo much better than it was 30 years ago?
Click to expand...
Yes 9mm JHPs are much better than they were 30 years ago. And so are .38 spl JHPs, .45 JHPs, etc. And .40 S&W JHPs are excellent to.

Go ahead and get the 9mm so you can shoot alot and gain skill (which is THE MOST IMPORTANT THING you can acquire.) Then later you can always upgrade if you so desire.

Deaf
 
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