Has Hodgdon changed their HP38/W231 load data?

[gonoles_1980]

For 158gr LSWC it's 3.1 to 3.7. I've been loading at 3.8, and I remember folks here talking about loading at 4.0. The Layman manual has 231 at 3.6-4.0. Seems to me the high end use to be higher. I wonder if they changed their formula.

 

[rcmodel]

No.

Prior to 2006 HP-38 and W-231 where two different powders, with two different sets of tested load data.

Since 2006, Hodgdon has packaged & sold the same powder out of the same bulk containers under two different names.

There didn't used to be standard & +P .38 Special data either!

The Lyman #47 manual listed both powders.
And both were noticeably higher then they are in the #49 manual.

But the powder has not changed.
Except they are both the same powder since 2006.

But these are kinder, gentler times we live in now!

rc

 

[Buck13]

No.

Prior to 2006 HP-38 and W-231 were two different powders, with two different sets of tested load data.

Since 2006, Hodgdon has packaged & sold the same powder out of the same bulk containers under two different names.

Which of them got discontinued?

 

[LiveLife]

Prior to 2006 HP-38 and W-231 were two different powders, with two different sets of tested load data.

Which of them got discontinued?

It was the Winchester load data that got changed after 2005. Starting 2006, it showed the same as 2005 Hodgdon load data which remains til today. Here are 9mm 115/124/125 gr load data for comparison.

1999 - 2005 Winchester load data - http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=159609&stc=1&d=1329800605

115 gr FMJ W231 Start 4.4 gr (1045 fps) 25,900 psi - Max 4.9 gr (1135 fps) 32,600 psi

115 gr JHP W231 Start 4.3 gr (1010 fps) 25,800 psi - Max 4.8 gr (1120 fps) 32,100 psi

124 gr Lead RN W231 Start 3.3 gr (910 fps) 23,800 psi - Max 4.0 gr (1035 fps) 32,900 psi

124 gr FMJ W231 Start 4.2 gr (1005 fps) 28,800 psi - Max 4.5 gr (1060 fps) 32,700 psi


2006 Hodgdon load data - http://castpics.net/LoadData/Freebies/RM/Hodgdon/Hodgdon2006.pdf

115 gr Speer GDHP W231/HP-38 OAL 1.125" Max 5.1 gr (1,167 fps) 28,100 CUP

125 gr Sierra FMJ W231/HP-38 OAL 1.090" Max 4.8 gr (1,088 fps) 28,800 CUP


Current Hodgdon load data - http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

115 gr Speer GDHP W231/HP-38 OAL 1.125" Start 4.7 gr (1,075 fps) 25,300 CUP - Max 5.1 gr (1,167 fps) 28,100 CUP

115 gr Lead RN W231/HP-38 OAL 1.100" Start 4.3 gr (1,079 fps) 28,400 CUP - Max 4.8 gr (1,135 fps) 32,000 CUP

124 gr Berry's HBRN-TP W231/HP-38 OAL 1.150" Start 3.9 gr (920 fps) 27,400 PSI - Max 4.4 gr (1,037 fps) 31,900 PSI

125 gr Sierra FMJ W231/HP-38 OAL 1.090" Start 4.4 gr (1,009 fps) 24,600 CUP - Max 4.8 gr (1,088 fps) 28,800 CUP

125 gr Lead CN W231/HP-38 OAL 1.125" Start 3.9 gr (1,009 fps) 25,700 CUP - Max 4.4 gr (1,086 fps) 31,200 CUP

125 gr Hornady HAP W231/HP-38 OAL 1.069" Start 2.8 gr (753 fps) 25,300 PSI - Max 3.3 gr (876 fps) 33,600 PSI

 

[ReloaderFred]

Neither of them got discontinued. They pay closer attention to the blending at St. Marks now than they used to. Now they have to ensure that both brands perform the same, per Hodgdon's specifications. When you own the brand, you get to make the rules.......

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Neither of them got discontinued. They pay closer attention to the blending at St. Marks now than they used to. Now they have to ensure that both brands perform the same, per Hodgdon's specifications. When you own the brand, you get to make the rules.......

Hope this helps.

Fred

There ya go, I agree with this ^^^

When I contacted both St. Marks and Hodgdon I was specifically told both are the same and have always been the same.

Here is the list I know to be fact, not fiction:
W231 = HP-38
W296 = H110
W540 = HS-6
W571 = HS-7 (both discontinued)
W760 = H414
WAP = Silhouette

 

[303load]

I have read that 231 is gone but hp38 is the same and that is what is available from here on out. Just what I have read. Btw can't find either.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I have read that 231 is gone but hp38 is the same and that is what is available from here on out. Just what I have read. Btw can't find either.

W231 is not gone and probably would stay if HP-38 was trashed. Hodgdon is not a stupid company and would never close down a highly prized name brand like Winchester powders or W231. There is a reason why W231 us usually more expensive than HP-38, many reloaders still think W231 is a better powder even though they are identical.

 

[KansasSasquatch]

W231 is not gone and probably would stay if HP-38 was trashed. Hodgdon is not a stupid company and would never close down a highly prized name brand like Winchester powders or W231. There is a reason why W231 us usually more expensive than HP-38, many reloaders still think W231 is a better powder even though they are identical.

If I understand correctly Hodgdon doesn't actually own the rights to Winchester Powders, they simply have a distribution agreement with Win/Olin. So they're still paying royalties if I'm correct. But they do own the rights to IMR as I understand it, so no royalties being paid there. They could charge the same price for W231 as they do HP-38, but then that'd cut into their profits. What's funny is the people who know they're the same powder but still are more than willing to pay an extra $1-2 for the Winchester name. I'd load up HP-38 all day long and never miss the Winchester name on the bottle.

 

[LiveLife]

From Hodgdon's website - https://www.hodgdon.com/history.html

Hodgdon purchased IMR Powder Company in October 2003. IMR legendary powders have been the mainstay of numerous handloaders for almost 100 years. IMR powders continue to be manufactured in the same plant and with the same exacting performance criteria and quality assurance standards that shooters have come to expect.

In March 2006, Hodgdon Powder Company and Winchester Ammunition announced that Winchester branded reloading powders would be licensed to Hodgdon. Winchester smokeless propellants, the choice of loading professionals, are available to the handloader to duplicate the factory performance of loads from handgun to rifle and shotgun.

 

[bamacisa]

According to a rep from Hodgdon, 231 and HP38 are the same powder. He said that they have always been the same powder. He said that out of a batch of powder, 1/3 would go to the factory for making Winchester ammo, 1/3 would be labeled Hp38 and that 1/3 would be labeled Winchester 231. You can call Hodgdon and verify this.

 

[ReloaderFred]

I don't need to call Hodgdon. I've talked to Chris Hodgdon in person at the SHOT Show several times and he confirms they are the same powder, with better blending.

Hope this helps.

Fred