Has Underwood switched out the .32acp cavitator with defender?

[Snowdog]

I just put a belt clip on my newer Keltec P32 (I still own my early 1st gen P32) and find I can wear it with anything... even pajamas if I want.

I currently use S&B 73gr FMJs as I have been doing so for years. However, I looked over a few YouTube videos that demonstrated the effectiveness of Underwood's .32acp Extreme Cavitator on ribs, ballistic gel, etc.

I had checked into Underwood's website about a year ago and decided to keep using S&B FMJs due to the steep price and the possibility of rimlock from the P32.

I checked into it again tonight and see they no longer show the square-bit looking Cavitator, but instead show what looks like, and described as, an Extreme Defender.

Have they changed their .32acp design or is this simply a mistake on Underwood's website?

I'm leaning more towards believing they've switched to the Defender design as the picture does appear to be a .32 auto with it's semi-rimmed design as well as a description of a 55gr projectile as opposed to the Cavitator's 50gr bullet weight.

https://www.underwoodammo.com/collections/handgun-ammo/cartridge_32-acp

ETA: I also emailed Underwood to get the official word after a google search turned up nothing. I'll update this if I receive a definitive reply.

 

[Ohen Cepel]

I like Underwood ammo but not sure if I would go with that till I see most data on the round. Also, I like to shoot at least 100rds of a load before I have any faith at all in it running in a pistol. In this case that will be over $100. I think I would just as soon stick with a hot ball load I know works. The Underwood may be a % better but not sure if it is worth it to me in this case.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

Good question, I am seriously thinking of adding the Keltec P32. This ammo is very interesting. I hope some folks that own the Keltec or this ammo can start posting. The Keltec at approx. 6 1/2 oz's. (less than 10 oz's loaded) sounds really appealing for Summer carry. Even makes my Pico seem heavy.

Pico fully loaded

 

[C0untZer0]

Do you not want to buy from Lehigh ?

https://www.lehighdefense.com/pages/xtreme-cavitator

 

[Snowdog]

Good question, I am seriously thinking of adding the Keltec P32. This ammo is very interesting. I hope some folks that own the Keltec or this ammo can start posting. The Keltec at approx. 6 1/2 oz's. (less than 10 oz's loaded) sounds really appealing for Summer carry. Even makes my Pico seem heavy.

Jeb, I bought my first P32 in '99 when they first came out (it has a very low serial number). Other than a mainspring malfunction that was corrected promptly by Keltec, I've never had any problems from it. I would estimate that one saw somewhere around 700 rounds, including the "hotter" Corbon 60gr JHPs. I switched to FMJ-only after reading about rimlock, though I never experienced it despite shooting Corbon, Hornady XTP, old style Winchester silvertips and Fiocchi JHPs. Not single rimlock in the circa 250 rounds of JHP put through it. I just didn't want to chance it.

I bought the 2nd generation tan on tan P32 a few months ago. It does appear ever-so-slightly heavier, but the improvements are worth it. My biggest concern with my first P32 was a very delicate looking removable piece that captures the recoil rod/spring. I believed if it didn't break on me, I'd lose the tiny thing. The 2nd gen slide is solid and does away with that piece.

 

[Tallball]

Mine was $120-something used and goes bang every time.

It doesn't really have sights. Other than that, it's great.

KelTec P32

• Tallball
• Jun 11, 2018

 

[MedWheeler]

No experience with the Lehigh ammo, but another nod here for the P32. Mine is also stoked with a hotter Euro-round (Fiocchi, I think.)

Get the ten-round magazine from KT. It's a neat option that makes the gun almost a completely different one at the range.

 

[JohnG]

I've done quite a bit of testing with the Lehigh tipped (Extreme Defender) Underwood loaded rounds. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...sive-handgun-ammo.844285/page-5#post-11054724

They leave consistent wounds and have very few issues, unlike hollow points, with barriers. I've only seen slight tip damage (still exhibiting flutes however) when penetrating auto windshields and doors...but much less deformation than any other ammo I've seen online. I prefer them to ball ammo for my Keltec 32 because the Extreme Defender penetrates barriers leaves a would cavity similar to hollow point except longer.

My Keltec choked a few times early on (before I put 100 rounds through it) on every type of ammo including ball, hollow point, and even a couple Lehigh/Underwood.

 

[JohnG]

I've ordered the ammo last week for my Keltec and they are, in fact, Extreme Defender (Philips head) and not Cavitator (square tip) design. The tips are very nicely rounded off compared to the 9mm tips. Makes me think they would have less trouble feeding. So far, I have shot a box worth and have had zero failures in my Keltec 32 that has about 250 rounds through it.

 

[Snowdog]

JohnG, I received the defender-style projectiles as well. I purchased 2 boxes and fired all but 8 with no failures of any kind. I now carry these in my P32.
I guess Underwood has discontinued using the Cavitator projectile for their .32acp loads. I wonder if the .30 Carbine will follow suit.

 

[JohnG]

Good question Snowdog. I've wondered the same thing. Yesterday, I also fired 20 trouble-free rounds of the non +P UXD rounds through a brand new Kel Tec 32 (my second Kel Tec 32) that I had only just put 100 Fiocchi through to break it in (also zero failures).

I did my 32 ACP Underwood Extreme Defender (55g not +P) meat test yesterday and here are my results. The bullet was fired through the thin side of a 2x4 before entering the meat. The entrance and exit holes were almost bullet diameter size. The wound cavity inside was somewhat less than 5/8" diameter (as felt with my finger) and that approaching 5/8" cavity stretched almost the entire length of the wound path which was nearly 7" to traverse through the meat. I messed up the first shot low (the lower hole) and it exited the meat down and early.

I see now how much difference the speed of the bullet makes with these Extreme Defender tipped bullets. These bullets are listed at 950fps and so it's likely considerably less out of my Kel Tec P-32 (I'm guessing maybe 800fps???).

The bullet performed and penetrated. I have no doubt these would do the self-defense job, but I need to test the +P version (as well as ball ammo) to see if the entrance/exit and path are larger. And, I also have no illusions that they are not nearly as destructive as the larger, faster UXD ammo. Entrance is first pic, exit second.

 

[JohnG]

Here's the results of the Underwood Extreme Defender and Fort Scott 380 ACP. I lost the pictures for the entrance and exit wounds, sorry. I'm not happy with how I completed this test, but I figured the pics may provide a little towards the data archive. Again, the bullets were fired through the thin side of a 2x4 before entering meat target.

I, again, botched the UXD 65g +P 380 ACP shot low and it exited early, but I had enough of a wound channel to show. It's wound channel was as expected and was about 5/8" in diameter at the widest through the meat. The Fort Scott performed really well too exhibiting a very similar wound channel and a clear tumble that started about an inch or so in the meat. The entrance holes were similar (only slightly smaller) than the 9mm holes shot previously. The exit holes were noticeably smaller than the 9mm however. Overall, they did considerably more damage than the UXD 32 ACP test and they also did considerably less damage than the 9mm.

 

[Snowdog]

Very informative posts, JohnG. I don't think one can get a better ballistic medium than real meat.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

Very informative posts, JohnG. I don't think one can get a better ballistic medium than real meat.

Ditto, already love shooting this little pistol that arrived last week. 50 rds of Fiocchi FMJ so far and ran great. Two boxes of Underwood Defender Plus P, should be arriving soon. I found a good deal at Sportsmen Guide. $161.00 plus I had a $10.00 coupon. Well worth the money.

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

For heavier loads you may want to consider a 13 lb. recoil spring from Wolf. Makes it much harder to rack the slide though. How are the newer extractors working/holding up?

 

[Snowdog]

How are the newer extractors working/holding up?

I haven't put very many rounds through my newer P32, but the extraction seems on par with my older, 1st generation P32. I don't recall reading anything too critical of the newer extractors. That said, I haven't been to the keltec forums in years.

 

[JohnG]

Very informative posts, JohnG. I don't think one can get a better ballistic medium than real meat.

Thanks Showdog. I think the most important thing I wanted to find out for sure is that the 32 would penetrate the wood and then go at least some distance into the meat. This single test makes me feel more comfortable that bone will not stop this UXD 32 round and that is should penetrate a sufficient distance. Very comforting indeed!

 

[JohnG]

For heavier loads you may want to consider a 13 lb. recoil spring from Wolf. Makes it much harder to rack the slide though. How are the newer extractors working/holding up?

351 Winchester. I noticed that the Underwood Extreme Defender rounds, being very light, actually make for a lighter recoil. It could be me misreading the recoil, but it seems that way across all calibers from 32, 380, 9mm, 40, 45, 357, and 10mm. The blast is much greater (noise and such), but the light weight of the bullets seems to provide for considerably less slide banging at the back.

I noticed for example, that each time I shoot the UXD I also shoot a full metal jacket round as well for a number of shots. Every single time the FMJ rounds feel much heavier in the recoil department even though their foot pounds of energy is considerably less.

If anyone else notices this, I'd love to know how they perceive both the blast and recoil. If the recoil is actually less, then a heavier spring could bring issues I would think. Thoughts???

 

[Jeb Stuart]

I have two boxes of the Underwood defenders plus p arriving and already received the 13lb Spring from Gallaway. I will try both springs. I also shoot PrecisionOne Plus P 380 and the standard. On those the Plus P is really not noticeable. I also have ARX ammo 9mm and ARX 9m Plus P. I really like both the PrecisionOne ammo in 380 and carry the ARX Plus P. Not saying these rounds are that similar, but just pointing it out.

 

[Bottom Gun]

I ordered some .32 ACP Cavitators from Lehigh and that's what I received.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

Underwood just came in XTREME Defender. Will be hitting the range tomorrow.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

I just put a belt clip on my newer Keltec P32 (I still own my early 1st gen P32) and find I can wear it with anything... even pajamas if I want.

I currently use S&B 73gr FMJs as I have been doing so for years. However, I looked over a few YouTube videos that demonstrated the effectiveness of Underwood's .32acp Extreme Cavitator on ribs, ballistic gel, etc.

I had checked into Underwood's website about a year ago and decided to keep using S&B FMJs due to the steep price and the possibility of rimlock from the P32.

I checked into it again tonight and see they no longer show the square-bit looking Cavitator, but instead show what looks like, and described as, an Extreme Defender.

Have they changed their .32acp design or is this simply a mistake on Underwood's website?

I'm leaning more towards believing they've switched to the Defender design as the picture does appear to be a .32 auto with it's semi-rimmed design as well as a description of a 55gr projectile as opposed to the Cavitator's 50gr bullet weight.

https://www.underwoodammo.com/collections/handgun-ammo/cartridge_32-acp

ETA: I also emailed Underwood to get the official word after a google search turned up nothing. I'll update this if I receive a definitive reply.

Here is what arrived. I ordered two boxes of the Defender and got these two upon arrival. Appears to be nothing but a name change. Notice same Item# I cannot tell any difference.
Plan to test today with standard recoil spring and a 13#




And also these arrived. Called Cavitator as well.

 

[Snowdog]

I'd like to hear what you think of these Xtreme Defenders (and how they feed for your P32). It fed well from my P32 though I put less then 2 boxes through it.

They do seem more "blasty" but the recoil didn't seem much different than 73gr ball. They do cut nice holes in paper.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

Came back from the range today.

Shot 25 rds of Fiocchi FJM with factory Spring
25 rounds of PPU Hollow points " "
10 rounds of Underwood Plus P

Installed Gallaway 13# spring and steel guide rod;
Shot all the above

Results- all shot flawless
13# spring did reduce recoil a little.

Conclusion, will use nothing but the Gallaway Spring.

PS this is a very easy gun to shoot. No problem hitting good groups at 7 yds even without sights. Points and shoots well. I can shoot the Pico better and longer distances but have a lot of practice with that gun.
Note* PPU seems to be loaded very light. Shot very mild. No problem cycling with #13 spring.

I will most likely re-load the Lehigh with Titegroup.