Hassle at WalMart

[ID_shooting]

This thread certianly is entertaining, IMHO, he shoplifted the ammo, I think that has been decided, We all know that WM does not hire "experts" to work in individual depts, Buyer beware certaily applies to every visit I have ahd a WM, the only thing I don't like about the place is the crowds but that is for a differnt discussion.

Now, I am going to bring another twist into the senario.

As for prosocuting, we all know that WM will file charges, it is what they do to discourage people from stealing. As for finding out who the buddy is? well, did he ever serve in the military? does he have a CCW? has he ever been arested? He left his ID at the store in teh form of finger prints on the box or the bag or even the counter if me placed his hands on it. Now, if charges are filed and a warrent is issued, if he has a CCW it will be pulled. Now addmittedly, his state might be differnt than mine, but my CCW states "A county sheriff shal have the power to revoke this license, subsequent to a hearing." So here is the issue:

Said buddy has charges filed against him, the sheriff pulls his CCW, local PD goes to serve the warrant, when the find him, he is carrying, boom, now not only is he picked up for shoplifting, now he has a charge of unlawfully conceeling a weapon. Now I know that this is a stretch, but it is possible and probable depending on where he lives.

If it were me, I would look up online for outstanding warrants by the county, mine posts them at least, he can also call from a pay phone and check, if so, he should turn himself in, that will carry more wieght than doing anything else.

We can argue allday long about what he should have done, but that doesn't go back in time and change things. What we shoudl do, is figure out a way not too lose another gun owner.

 

[general]

I honestly thought I was being over charged - should I "make ammends"?

Pendragon...
You know the answer to that.
the thing about- "...what you have when no-one is looking"

 

[R.H. Lee]

This thread certianly is entertaining, IMHO, he shoplifted the ammo, I think that has been decided,

I don't think that's a foregone conclusion. AFAIK, shoplifting, like any other crime, must be comprised of specific 'elements' to qualify. None of us have sufficient legal training to even list those elements, let alone make a judgement on their merits.

 

[Pendragon]

Ah yes.

Character.

See, its not like I took $10 out of a Wal-Mart register. I saw a product for a certain price (I thought). It rang different, I was unwilling to pay the higher price and said I saw it marked lower. This was done in good faith and if they had not lowered the price, I would have not purchased the item.

I did not need a $30 game pad, $20 was a stretch, but I had returned another item and was using the credit.

So as to the character issue, I do see that point. But I also think the customer/retailer relationship as somewhat adversarial. We shop for the best prices, sometimes you can even negotiate (which is what I essentially did) and sometimes one party loses (as I did when I did not check my ammo).

I took Wal-Mart at their word that they were giving me .45 since that is what I asked for. When I found the error, I could not return the ammo and I did not get upset.

So when I said the gamepad was $20 (which I honestly thought), Wal-Mart could have checked, but they took me at my word and lowered the price.

There was no dishonesty in either case, only accidental mistakes that could have been checked, but neither party considered the $10 in question to be worth checking on.

I think the guy in this thread should have just tried to exchange, then got over it and traded or something.

There have been many cases where I have not been charged for an item at a restaurant and have reminded the wait person to include the item on the check. I do not have a blanket policy of "getting away with" every item I can. If I did, then I think the character maxim would apply.

Caveat emptor for certain - but I think its a two way street.

 

[Declaration Day]

Here's how I see it

I see these situations from an economic point of view. Though I have not been in this exact situation, I have made mistakes with other products. If it didn't cost much in the first place, I will not make a special trip to take it back. My closest Wal-Mart is about 10 miles away. Since my truck is a monstrous gas guzzler, it's going to cost me $1.50 to get there, and $1.50 to get back. Assuming the box of ammo cost $10, that leaves $7. Now, if I am not doing something I want to do, I might as well be at work. It's going to take me about 45 minutes to make this trip. I earn way more than $7 in 45 minutes while working, so to me, it is not worth it. I might try to return it next time I am going to Wal-Mart for other things, but I rarely go there, and am likely to forget about it by then. I'd be further ahead giving it to a friend who owns a .40 cal firearm.

 

[Unlucky]

he shoplifted the ammo, I think that has been decided,

Wal-Mart charged the man fo a product then substituted a lesser value product that was not what he asked for, resulting in Wal-Mart getting money they did not "earn." I think we can agree that this was unintentional.

Man goes back to claim his rightful property with documentation provided by WM and the product he was wrongly sold, in original and unused condition.

Man asks to exchange product for the one he rightfully purchased, WM makes up "cock-and-bull" story about federal law (really company policy to protect against liability resulting from tampering), hence man takes what he paid for and leaves lesser product in WM's care.

Where's the shoplifting/theft? The only "theft" I see was WM providing a lesser product in exchange for a more valuble product. Refusing to make amends only compounds the issue.

At face value, assuming that this isn't an account of a lie told by one friend to another, then I fail to see any theft occuring, save the original "theft" by WM.

The idea that taking what's yours is "theft" or poor character seems ludicrous.

 

[BrokenArrow]

Skipped to the end...

A great example of both sides being jerks IMO!

WalMart could have exchanged it, kept a happy customer, and just bitten the bullets.

Your friend was asking for trouble and got lucky. Pretty big risk for $15.

 

[Majic]

Said buddy has charges filed against him, the sheriff pulls his CCW, local PD goes to serve the warrant, when the find him, he is carrying, boom, now not only is he picked up for shoplifting, now he has a charge of unlawfully conceeling a weapon.

They will have to notify you of the suspension of your CCW. Untill you have been dutifully notified (probably by registered mail) your license would still be legal. Also the sheriff's departments are authorized to issue licenses, but do they have the power to revoke one or do a judge or magistrate have to perform that task?

 

[Warpspyder]

I work Loss Prevention for a major clothing retailer. Had I seen this happen, your friend would have been in handcuffs five seconds after he hit the cement.

 

[Unlucky]

Wal-Mart steals from customer = OK

Customer "steals" from Wal-Mart = Not OK

 

[md2lgyk]

Well, my local Wal-Mart must be an exception. It even co-sponsors local shooting events.

I've never purchased ammo there other than .22LR (I reload everything else) but did buy a fairly expensive (for Wal-Mart) stereo a couple of years ago. When it died a couple of weeks later I went back to try to exchange it, though figuring I was hosed because I hadn't saved the receipt. After explaining at the CS counter about losing the receipt, the clerk asked me if I could remember the exact day I bought the stereo. When I told her the day and approximate time, she checked some computer records and found the transaction. I got the stereo replaced.

 

[Matthew Courtney]

I work Loss Prevention for a major clothing retailer. Had I seen this happen, your friend would have been in handcuffs five seconds after he hit the cement.

Warpspyder,

I had a punkass mall ninja try that on me once when I would not stop when their buzzer went off. Why should I get hassled just because they forgot to demagnatize what they sold me? I coldcocked the punk and the police came and arrested him.

 

[R.H. Lee]

I work Loss Prevention for a major clothing retailer. Had I seen this happen, your friend would have been in handcuffs five seconds after he hit the cement

If it had been clothing, the whole thing never would have happened-unless returning unused/unopened/undamaged clothing is a "Violation of Federal Law"

 

[Viking6]

Hmmmm...whatever happened to an armed society is a polite society. I must be getting old, but there sure seems to a whole lotta drama in the world today.

 

[Warpspyder]

RileyMC-

I have had similar incidents happen actually. It is no different when someone walks in with a size 4 swimsuit and claims that they had paid for a size 6 and wants to exchange it... even though the receipt says size 4 on it.

It is the same type of incident just with a different product. No matter how you slice it, he walked out with unpaid for merchandise. That box of ammo was never rang through the register thus it walked out unpaid for.

Matthew-

Sorry you had the bad experience. There are always bad appels in every career field as im sure you know. My stores policy is to never stop anyone for setting off an alarm. 99.9% of the time its a sales associates fault.

I wouldnt call all Loss Prevention mall ninjas. I myself have POST certification along with three other of my co-workers. We arrest people that police wouldnt dare touch being un-armed. We are what keeps prices down in stores whether youd like to believe it or not. Ive arrested people with loaded handguns, knifes, razors, needles, and the list goes on.

Loss Prevention can be a profession if you choose to make it one. In the field as an agent you can make over 30 dollars an hour plus a lot of benefits.

 

[schromf]

I really think this was handled poorly by both sides. But I do want to note Walmart made NO effort to makes things right. They should at least refunded rto the customer the difference in the price on the two different types of ammo.

EDITED:

Frankly I would have never gotten into this situation, besides not shopping at WalMArt ever. I would have used my credit card for the purchase and I would have immediatly contacted my CC company to stop payment. Then it is back in Walmarts court to argue with the credit card company, and the manager would be trying to resolve the issue.

 

[R.H. Lee]

not to nitpick but

I have had similar incidents happen actually. It is no different when someone walks in with a size 4 swimsuit and claims that they had paid for a size 6 and wants to exchange it... even though the receipt says size 4 on it.

for your story to be analogous, the receipt would have to say 'size 6', although the customer was given a size 4 at the time of purchase.

You got it backwards.

 

[JimJD]

I work Loss Prevention for a major clothing retailer. Had I seen this happen, your friend would have been in handcuffs five seconds after he hit the cement.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RileyMc,

Sorry to hear that Wal-Mart pulled something like this.
However, I would not have done what He did. To possibly end up under arrest is not worth the price of a box of ammo. That's just My opinion.
The issue should have been presented to one of the regional offices(if that's what they call them).
If they still do not want to play ball, oh well. I would then try to sell the box of ammo to a friend or another shooter at the range. I know when I purchase anything at any shop, I always double check to see what was given to Me before the sale. Probably because I've worked retail and have seen too many screw-up's during that time.
Meh. It could have been worse.

Reminds Me of one thing though. I was at a W.M. Superstore recently.
First thing I usually do before I shop is go and take a look at the Firearms and whatnot.
A gentleman was trying to purchase a pump shotgun. Clerk gets on the in-store P.A. system and calls for a manager to assist in the sale of said firearm. I then went about My shopping. All the while, same clerk is calling for a manager over and over.
As I'm about to leave, I hear the same clerk calling for the same thing.
Went over there to see if it was the same customer. Yup. It was.
I just shake My head and left for the nearest exit with My purchases. This was about forty-five minutes after the inital request!
Poor Guy.
Must have been one heck of a deal on that Shotgun!

 

[Sisco]

I bought a 10/22 at WalMart for a project gun, had to wait for a "Member of Management". Clerk finally grabbed one as she walked by, but she was reluctant to do it.
As she was escorting me and the rifle out of the store she told me why. Although she is "Management" she doesn't have anything to do with the sporting goods dept. and had only approved gun sales a couple of times. If the yellow form she had approved turned out to be filled out improperly or some other error was made it would come back on her and she could lose her job.

 

[J.J.]

Matthew Courtney

Somehow I do not believe that because if you for no reason punched him when he is trying to do his job, that is called assault and it would be you that would be in trouble, so please do tell why he was arrested.

 

[Matthew Courtney]

Somehow I do not believe that because if you for no reason punched him when he is trying to do his job, that is called assault and it would be you that would be in trouble, so please do tell why he was arrested.

J.J.,

The facts were not disputed by the security gaurd. He, like you, believed he was justified. He was wrong.

He rushed up from behind me and grabbed me without justification and without even identifying himself. I hit him in lawful self defense, reasonably believing that I was being mugged, and I certainly knew I was being attacked.

Louisiana law does allow merchants and their representatives to use force to detain an individual when there is reasonable suspicion to believe that they are shoplifting. The reality that exit alarms are tripped far more frequently due to employee negligence than attempted larceny creates a situation where an exit alarm alone does not create reasonable suspicion.

I had been detained on multiple previous occasions by such geniuses while they searched my bags and filled out forms. I did not mind having my bags checked. I realize that such things help retailers keep costs down. What really pissed me off is that they wouldn't give me my stuff back until they filled out their BS forms, making me stand around and wait. I got sick of it so I looked into exactly what they can and cannot do. If store personell use force againt a person based only on an exit alarm and that person is not shoplifting, they can expect to go to jail, especially if the "suspect" has no larceny type offenses on their record.

The security gaurd in question was arrested for simple battery and disturbing the peace.

Edited to add: Had I known the idiot would attack me I would have stayed home that day. I simply thought that they were bluffing and knew how far they could go. That's what I get for thinking.

 

[Warpspyder]

Matthew-

You are absolutely right... I dont know where you shop but the security sounds like real morons. Id be fired if I tackled someone for setting off a door alarm.

Detaining someone who doesnt actually have stolen merchandise is big time lawsuits in CA... not sure about Lousiana.

 

[c_yeager]

In WA the security person has to witness the subject exit the property with the merchandise. If the person has placed an item in their pocket they must be kept in sight for their ENTIRE time in the store to ensure that the merchandise isnt dropped before they leave. Noone in their right mind tackles someone for tripping a door alarm. I've had people ask me to stop and go back when i have set one of. I usually do it unless they are being a jerk about it, then i keep walking.