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Hassled by an Urban Outdoorsman

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Rizzox

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Jun 16, 2006
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Atlanta, GA
I go to school a couple of nights a week in downtown Atlanta and usually have to park in public parking garages and walk a block or two to class. A few weeks ago I was in hurry in get back home, so I was walking at a faster than average pace when I noticed a local drop in behind me, as soon as the cop that patrols the area turned the corner. This guy was trying to catch up to me / engage me and ask for money. The parking garage I was parked at is very well lit, with 2 guards, so luckily the guy broke off just as he was closing in when I entered the garage. I work in a place that doesn't allow guns in the parking lot and obviously school won't let me carry a gun anyway. I didn't have a knife or OC on me, which was a mistake.

I didn't handle the situation very well, I just ignored him as he closed in. Anyone have any advice on what I should do if I am ever in that situation again (unarmed, with someone deliberately moving in on you at night in a rough part of town)? Should I have issued him a verbal challenge or called for the police (they probably were within earshot)? What kind of a verbal challenge should you give if you are unarmed?

A side note, it is really frustrating that the police in Atlanta don't say or do anything to these guys until they are really bothering somebody.
 
Those are some of the most difficult encounters to deal with, armed or unarmed. The bum may just be wanting money and may go away. Or if you tell him "no" he may get angry. I've had a situation where telling the loon to go away just made him threaten more. Avoidance is the best solution. Even if you have a weapon you can't use it just because someone is a creepy loon.
 
I grew up in Atlanta, my dad teaches at GSU (which I assume is where you're going to school), and I know the panhandler scene downtown well.

"A side note, it is really frustrating that the police in Atlanta don't say or do anything to these guys until they are really bothering somebody."

For the record, the Atlanta police have been systematically harassing, arresting, beating, and driving out the homeless population from downtown for decades. Is that what you meant by "do anything?"

I know I'll probably take some flack for this, but, as Speech from the music group Arrested Development said in the song "Mr. Wendel:"

"Two dollars means a snack to me but it means a big deal to you."

If we deal with those in the world who need compassion in compassionate ways, it goes a long, long way.

Obviously, things like mental illness and drug influence can make that point moot, and I understand that, and in those cases you may need to defend yourself, which I guess is what you're asking. I imagine that the general advice to you will be "avoid or deescalate trouble" and I think that generosity is a great way to start that.

To answer your question more directly, I think that loudly announcing that you're not going to give him any money and that if he continues to approach, you're going to call security (or the police) is a good idea.

Josh
 
IMO there are two primary concerns:

1) that he's got a partner, and if you change direction to face him, his partner will come what was your front and jump you from behind
2) that he isn't concerned about an actual confrontation

Other than that, it's easy to deal with. Put your "crazy mofo, want to beat in a skull" face on, and tell him back off unless he wants to be beaten/whatever if he doesn't respond to pleasant (yet firm with definite threat of defensive force). That's about all you can do; don't act afraid, let him know you're aware of him and that you won't take any sh*t.

If we deal with those in the world who need compassion in compassionate ways, it goes a long, long way.
Click to expand...

I'm all for helping the guy who's down or has a hard life, but the willful begger (ie someone who does it because they prefer it to working) or some guy coming up behind me quickly and diverting when I come upon a potentially "safe" area where he might be identified or more easily stopped are not those kinds of people.
 
In my experience

It's been my experience that those in need of a handout are either A) Too proud to ask for it, or B) So far down that they rely on folks to toss a bone their way as they pass.

Folks who approach you to hit you up for cash are either panhandling because it's profitable or because it's a prelude to something else. Neither need your money.

I've given money to folks, bought lunch for folks. Never gave one thin dime to someone who apprached me for it.
 
Keep moving, carry OC, or whatever you legally can. A firm "No" will give you all the answers you need. If he continues talking, walking with you. Another firm "No." Then perhaps an abrupt course change, maybe back where you came from. If he is still coming, "I am calling the police." Move fast, move affirmatively (This is no time for timidity), and watch your six.
Eyes and ears open, stay alert and ready.
 
For the record, the Atlanta police have been systematically harassing, arresting, beating, and driving out the homeless population from downtown for decades. Is that what you meant by "do anything?"
Click to expand...

if they are still there, they obviously have not done a very good job of it.
 
I used to work in Downtown L.A. where there are some aggressive homeless folks. Some of them have an entitlement attitude and are quite aggressive. (One of my employees had the unfortunate incident of being attacked by one and almost raped in broad daylight, but fortunately, she was able to get away with just a cut knee.) In my experience, I echo what the other folks have said about being forceful and specifically what Caimlas said. I would never say anything mean to them...this was my standard line actually, "No Thanks" followed up by a firm and purposeful walking away from them. If they persisted, I would say no thanks, walk faster, and ignore them. Some persisted, but I was always polite but purposeful. It's a hunting mentality I suppose...if they find that you aren't weak, they move on to one that is weaker and in turn is less work.
 
Can you not carry a D-cell Maglite to school ???

If we deal with those in the world who need compassion in compassionate ways, it goes a long, long way.
Click to expand...

I guess that's true ... there's an old guy that's been standing on street corners for months in Billings with a cardboard sign that says something about "need money to go home to Oklahoma". He doesn't seem to have gotten very far ;)
 
One thing that has worked for me 99% of the time from LA to Vancouver to New York to New Orleans to Houston is a polite "No Thank You". The other 1%I just continued walking and they did not.

Every interaction with a stranger is not a threat... might be a wee bit uncomfortable, but that is far from a threat.
 
"I don't have any change for you", and you'd know if he had other intentions judging by if he went back the other way or continued. If he continued, run toward a building or security guards/police.
 
Drunks and drug addicts will lie about why they need the money. In New Haven, the closest city to here, anyone can get food for free at the soup kitchen. I think most cities have places like that. So, what that means if that if they are asking for money, no matter what they say, it is because they can't get drugs or booze at the soup kitchen.
I saw a guy saying "can you spare some change for food" outside a grocery store a few weeks ago. It was during intermission at the "A Christmas Carol", and i felt guilty, so i gave him half of the sandwich i had just bought. He put it in his pocket. Then i watched him from across the street while i smoked a cigarette, and with he sandwich in his pocket that he apprently wasn't hungry enough to eat, he continued asking people if they had "change for food"
 
In times past, I've taken food to people standing around begging in Atlanta and Augusta. Got cursed out for my trouble.

Seems they didn't need money for food, clothing, or shelter.

They needed it for booze and dope.
 
http://www.hideawayknife.com/

I am NOT a lawyer, but my reading of the california code re: knives permits little guys like this if they are worn on, or suspended from the belt. which is by definition not concealed.

They are low profile, quick to hand, weigh nothing, and in my experiments do some amazing damage to a whole ham.

edit: I prefer the Claw model, YMMV
 
If I see someone in downtown Pittsburgh is asking for money for food, I'll buy them some food. But I never give them currency.

What I run into a lot is people standing on corners saying "It's my son's birthday and I don't have any money, I just need $5" or "I need change for the bus and I gotta take 3 transfers". These people are usually clean (meaning they've showered within the past 3 days) and have decent clothing on. I can usually tell that they're just lazy.

One time a guy with a big gold chain asked me for bus fare. I told him to pawn his "bling bling" and kept walking.
 
I tell them "sorry, don't carry cash"...usually the truth. Going to class and working in the downtown area, I try my hardest not to carry cash and if I do, not to flash it around. They pretty much leave once I tell them that. I understand the compassionate argument and all, I'm polite but firm. On the campus area they are pretty set up and have their sections staked out...I don't want to get into any routines that would do me harm later down the road.
 
Since we've moved to general tactics (lol) for beggars, mine is simply, "No, sorry" when they ask if i can spare some change. If i give them anything , which is very rare, it's food. Simple to the point, and shuts them down right away.
I actually used to know one of the street people when i worked as a bartender. He was a likeable, happy guy, as long as he had booze. If he didn't he was in bad bad shape. He never begged for anything from anyone. He waited until we took out the trash, and went through it for cans and cups with booze in them. He'd pour it all into one cup, which he called a "boilermaker". I'd often sneak him a couple of beers, or any leftover booze from the dressing room, because i was pretty sure he would have died if he didn't get booze. Very severe alcoholic.
He would get food from restaurants at closing time when they threw out their extra stuff at the end of the day.
He generally hated other streetpeople, and would chase them off if they got near his "turf", and never went to the shelter.
"Frenchy", may he rest in peace.
 
FWIW, I read this poster at an outdoor market once. It showed a homeless guy holding a sign that read: "By giving me money, you're enabling me to stay homeless. You're helping me subject myself to sickness and disease. Instead of giving me the money, you should be giving it to those organizations that will use it to provide a safe shelter, and help me get off the streets, instead of keeping me here."

I think of that poster often.
 
FWIW, I recently was approached by a panhandler in downtown Detroit. He said he wanted to get something to eat. I was not about to take out my wallet, but had an apple in my pocket. I took it out and offered it to him. He took it and thanked me and moved on.

There's probably a few lessons there.
 
worked at a homeless hostel
beggars who stayed there often made 80 to £100 begging
but that wasn't there money they were just passing it on to a dealer :mad:

a lot had a horrific upbringing or just made a few mistakes or were mentally ill
most weren't dangerous though
 
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