Have some Trapdoor questions for the experts...

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Ugly Sauce said:
The Lee 405 grain bullet mold which casts a replica of the Trapdoor bullet is not expensive, and mine casts out at .460". Refer to the pic of my carbine above. I'd say it shoots "okay" at 100 yards.

I'm pretty sure that many of us on this forum who have the LEE mold would cast you some bullets, out of pure lead, for a far better price than what you could buy them from a bullet maker, if you don't want to get the mold and cast your own. As mentioned, most bullets on the market will be .458" and hard lead. Nope, not a good combination.

Disclaimer: I do not suggest shooting damascus shotguns, although I would. I do warn against smokeless in a Trapdoor, which I would not. I could be wrong. :) !! :)
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I pretty much only shoot soft lead and BP... I have the Lee mold on my list to get... currently have a few molds for various RB and Conicals so once I get the other goodies I should be good to go... The list just keeps getting longer and longer... Hand press, dies, brass, primers, mold, etc... Still need to keep enough pennies saved for a smoothbore flinter too...:thumbup:
 
The only use I would have for that hand press is to decap at the range before bringing brass home in a jar of soapy water.
Get a real bench press. You can put it on a stand if space is tight. I had a homemade stand in a small apartment. I spread components out on a card table next to the stand. When done loading, I set the stand in the corner and folded the card table.
Here is the Lee stand.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012829921?pid=324379
You can use a Workmate. A friend put his Lyman Spartan on an old typewriter table ballasted by his lead inventory.
 
I've been using the hand press for all my reloading for at least 25 years, or since they were new. I have even done case forming, 7.62X25mm from 5.56. In that case (pun intended) I just clamped it in my bench vise, in the garage/shop in order to put a little extra muscle into it. I have two bench presses, they have both fallen into disuse long ago. Well...one I broke trying to size jacketed .338 bullets down to .330". Under a bench in the shop now, in a pile with crank shafts, cam shafts, rocker shafts, and other engine parts from my bracket racing days. With the hand press, all I need is a table, or small desk to set my scales on. Even a window sill would work.
 
You are a better man than I, Gunga Din.
I have a ca 1970 English Pak Tool. It was a better loader than a Lee hammer type or even a Lyman 310 tong tool, but I soon replaced it with a Rockchucker on that narrow stand.
 
Some don't like to clean their guns, but a black powder cartridge gun is super-easy to clean, as the case seals the breech from fouling.
 
Jim Watson said:
You are a better man than I, Gunga Din.
I have a ca 1970 English Pak Tool. It was a better loader than a Lee hammer type or even a Lyman 310 tong tool, but I soon replaced it with a Rockchucker on that narrow stand.
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Oh man, I'm glad the days of the first LEE loaders that used a hammer to do the work are gone. That's what I started with. But the "Hand Press" works quite well, has lots of leverage. Probably not so great with the really big magnum cases, although I did use it when I had a .338WinMag, but mostly just neck sized them.
 
Ugly Sauce said:
Some don't like to clean their guns, but a black powder cartridge gun is super-easy to clean, as the case seals the breech from fouling.
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Exactly! My wife and I shoot CAS and I shoot black and she shoots smokeless and I spend less time cleaning my guns than I do hers. When a gun has nothing but black powder ran through it it's almost like it seasons the barrel. A couple wet patches with water followed by a couple patches with ballistol and it's done.

The only advantage with smokeless is you really don't have to clean every time but when you do have to it's always more work.
 
marblkgrp.jpg
So that I don't accidentally get any smokeless loads in my Trapdoors, I only shoot my BP loads in my Marlin 1895 too. Same deal, a couple patches down the bore (being careful not to push crud into the action) and it's good. The Marlin is especially accurate with my .45-80-400 load, and considering all the buffalo that were killed with 70 grains or less, I don't feel the need for modern loads that nip at the heels of the .458 Winchester. !!!
 
StrawHat said:
If you can not sanely use smokeless powder, black powder is fine. I like and use black powder in my 50-70s and my revolvers. I like and use smokeless powders in some of my rifles and some of my revolvers. It is as simple as matching the purpose and the need with the powder.

The British have used black powder equivalent loads for a couple of centuries.

Kevin
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You have .50-70's? Oh man...I so wanted a .50-70. I love my .45-70's, but the cool factor of a .50-70 is through the roof!
 
Ugly Sauce said:
You have .50-70's? Oh man...I so wanted a .50-70. I love my .45-70's, but the cool factor of a .50-70 is through the roof!
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If you want a 50-70, consider one of the Model 1868 or Model 1870 Springfield Single Shot Rifles. Much stronger than the previous models. All the parts were purpose built, not converted from muskets. Another option would be the New York Militia Remington Rolling Blocks.

But, be warned, the more you us your big 50, the less use you will have for it’s smaller bored offspring. I used to have thirteen 45-70s. Then I got a 50-70. After using it in the field for a few years, I have only retained two 45-70s, and one of those is destined to be converted to 50-70. When I want flatter trajectory, I drop down to the 405 WCF.

Kevin
 
You just had to post that pic, didn't you? One of my super powers is sleeping well at night. So much for that. I don't doubt that if I had a bitchen .50-70 like that, most of my rifles would fall into disuse. I'm afraid that having the chamber on my Trapdoor rifle reamed out to .45-90 is as far as I'm going to get.

However, I've never seen a rifle like that before. Dropped into a Mississippi rifle stock, or something? Or? By Jove, THAT, is a RIFLE! Dang.
 
Ugly Sauce said:
…You just had to post that pic, didn't you? One of my super powers is sleeping well at night. So much for that. I don't doubt that if I had a bitchen .50-70 like that, most of my rifles would fall into disuse. I'm afraid that having the chamber on my Trapdoor rifle reamed out to .45-90 is as far as I'm going to get…
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I am not sure that is a practical conversion. The action will easily handle the pressure but will the loaded cartridge work through the action? 45-80-500 is as long as the military could go when they were experimenting and testing new cartridges and bullets for the Springfield. Those tests lead to the adoption of the 500 grain bullet.

Ugly Sauce said:
…However, I've never seen a rifle like that before. Dropped into a Mississippi rifle stock, or something? Or? By Jove, THAT, is a RIFLE! Dang.
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Indeed, a Model 1866 barreled action I fitted into a replica Mississippi Rifle stock and lock. Had to remove wood for the extractor spring and other action parts. Also needed to bed the action and the barrel into the over large inletting. Originally was going to use a replica 1861 Musket (sound familiar?) but the Mississippi with a crappy barrel came along at the right price first.

Kevin
 
StrawHat said:
45-80-500 is as long as the military could go when they were experimenting and testing new cartridges and bullets for the Springfield.
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.45-80-500 was in the same 2.4" case length as .45-90 WCF so the .45-90 should fit.
But why? .45-70 is already more fun than I want, my big gun is a .40-65.
There was a guy here who bought a .45-90 reamer and was extending everything.
He even rechambered an 1876 .45-60 WCF reproduction to .45-70 which would have required very deep seating the bullet.
 
As I recall, the .45-80-500 Long Range Springfield used the 2.4" case. The long range ballistics were a definite improvement over .45-70-405 but the money men said we are not paying to rechamber all those rifles and retool ammo production. So they just loaded the 500 gr bullet in GI 2.1" cases.
 
My chamber has some pitting just ahead of the chamber, right where the end of the case would be. I thought that would be a good way to clean it up. I know the .45-70 will knock anything over, but I think a little extra thump would be fun.
 
StrawHat said:
I am not sure that is a practical conversion. The action will easily handle the pressure but will the loaded cartridge work through the action? 45-80-500 is as long as the military could go when they were experimenting and testing new cartridges and bullets for the Springfield. Those tests lead to the adoption of the 500 grain bullet.


Indeed, a Model 1866 barreled action I fitted into a replica Mississippi Rifle stock and lock. Had to remove wood for the extractor spring and other action parts. Also needed to bed the action and the barrel into the over large inletting. Originally was going to use a replica 1861 Musket (sound familiar?) but the Mississippi with a crappy barrel came along at the right price first.

Kevin
Click to expand...

That is the coolest rifle ever. I suck at stock work and inletting, otherwise I'd do something like that for sure. I've seen some Trapdoors in long-rifle type stocks, those look very cool also.
 
StrawHat said:
For who? You or the target?


Kevin
Click to expand...

Both. I'm not real "recoil sensitive". Shooting the standard rifle load in my carbine does not bother me, ("carbine load?" Carbine load?" "We don't need no stinking carbine load!") and I shoot a 80 grain load in my rifle already, with a 400 grain bullet, and that does not bother me either. But, and everyone is tired of hearing this, I do hunt in a grizzly recovery area, so some extra thump on that target is not a bad thing.
 
Gemmer, the successor to the Hawken brothers, made period Hawken styled trapdoors usually with the Armory barrels still in place but some had octagonal barrels. They also did Hawken styled Rolling Blocks, my next 50!

Kevin
 
Ugly Sauce said:
..Both. I'm not real "recoil sensitive". Shooting the standard rifle load in my carbine does not bother me... But, and everyone is tired of hearing this, I do hunt in a grizzly recovery area, so some extra thump on that target is not a bad thing…
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As I get older, I am more sensitive to recoil. A complete shoulder replacement may have something to do with this.

But, heck, grizzlies have been killed with the 22 ref! Why would you need more thump?!?

Kevin
 
Sometimes I carry a spear. Grizzlies have been killed with spears. Let me know when the recoil of that .50-70 in the Mississippi stock becomes troublesome to you.
 
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