Have you seen Smith & Wesson M&P triggers lately?

[ClickClickD'oh]

The fact that there's a massive market to replace the triggers should say something in and of itself.

And the fact that there's a whole industry wrapped around 1911 tinkering? What does that say?

What happens if we type "Glock Trigger" into the search at Midway? Oh, we get four pages of returns. "M&P Trigger" gives us less than one page. It's official, Glocks suck... I guess.

Perhaps the Honda Civic is a crappy car because there's a whole industry that revolves around replacing their exhaust pipes.

Maybe it's because nothing is really broken, but people like to tinker with their stuff in the misbegotten belief that they can some how make it better than the professional engineers that originally designed it... and all they are doing is adding "R Type" stickers.

Also, when did we start taking the word of the counter guy at the gun store as being carved in stone on a tablet from god? I spend more time rolling my eyes at the Used Car Salesman snake oil garbage that comes out of their mouths than I do taking anything seriously. Yeah sure, some of them know what they are talking about and actually care about the customer. The rest are just there to sell you a product and it's not always the product you are interested in. "Oh sure, we can sell you brand X, but you don't want brand X... it's really not that good. I don't even know why we sell it. What you really need is brand Y (which I'm enrolled in a dealer rewards program for, but I'm not going to tell you that)"

I see the same thing over and over and over again in these threads and on the range. People who confuse personally not liking the feel of a particular brands trigger pull with the trigger actually impacting how the gun shoots in a negative way. I can't even begin to count the number of students who come to class insisting that they need to get work done on their gun because it can't shoot well and after some basic fundamentals work it turn out everything was just fine all along, except for a particular lack of skills. 99% of the people on the range or at the LGS have absolutely zero real training other than what comes from watching some movies. I don't give a lick if they've put 10,000 rounds down range through paper targets. All they've been doing for years is reinforcing bad habits. Their opinion is irrelevant. They don't even know what they don't know. Their telling me their opinion on which guns are good and bad based on their personal opinion of how the trigger feels in their hands is the equivalent of me writing NASA with the design specs for a Mars lander. The last three job quals I did (two POST, one CLEET) I shot with a 1911, a CZ-75 Phantom and a factory stock M&P. Three radically different trigger systems, same result... Perfect scores all three times. It's the shooter, not the gun in almost every case (Hi-Points stll stink). People need to stop blaming their equipment for their lack of skills. When someone says, "I can't shoot <brand X>", what I hear is "I can't shoot". Go practice basics.

 

[fastbolt]

People need to stop blaming their equipment for their lack of skills. When someone says, "I can't shoot <brand X>", what I hear is "I can't shoot". Go practice basics.

Nice thought. People apparently have an innate need to blame equipment for any shortcomings of their abilities, though.

As the owner of a couple of M&P's ('08 & '10 production), and issued user of a recent production M&P 40 ... and having been through the M&P pistol armorer class a few times ... I've not found much of anything to complain about with the M&P's. I could say the same thing about Glocks, 3rd gen S&W's, the 99-series, Colt 1911's and Classic SIG's, for that matter. (Except I don't own any SIG's, but just went through the armorer class for the Classic Series.)

Never wanted to go through the armorer classes for the HK USP, Beretta 92/96 series or the XD's, nor spend my own money on owning any of them, but I've run them on training ranges from time to time. How can a firearms instructor consider him/herself adequately trained and sufficiently skilled if unable to run any of the modern assortment of handguns commonly seen in-service without at least above-average skill?

I'm also a longtime revolver owner/shooter, and used to carry issued S&W revolvers on-duty, and went through a S&W revolver armorer class. Followed those with TDA 3rd gen's. Learn to run the guns.

I miss the days when handgun shooters learned their foundation skillset using DA revolvers. Learning to run SA & DA revolvers, 1911's and then TDA (also called DA/SA) can make running any of the newer striker-type guns seem a bit anticlimactic.

Handguns are handguns. Develop a well-rounded handgun shooting skillset and focus less on complaining about whatever may be being used at the moment.

I've had some interesting moments handing a DA/DAO revolver to one of the younger LE firearms instructors who fancy themselves decently skilled.

 

[FireInCairo]

Right, because there is no aftermarket for Glock.

It's not the market, necessarily, it's the reason for the market.

 

[tipoc]

There has been a thriving market for over 25 years in aftermarket parts to improve the triggers of Glocks. Glock responded to it by upgrades totheir triggers a few times over the years.

There is a market for these parts for the same reason, and often the same people, for M&P parts and parts for other guns.

tipoc

 

[ddc]

....Watch the muzzle, they're still heavy, ....

Maybe that's part of the reason the muzzle flip on my wife's 5" M&P is about half what it is with my 5" PPQ.

 

[Hangingrock]

I appears and I could be wrong but ego investiture is at play. What I use or like is the best and thus I can't be questioned so others are wrong in their choice/selection of a firearm.

 

[ddc]

I appears and I could be wrong but ego investiture is at play. What I use or like is the best and thus I can't be questioned so others are wrong in their choice/selection of a firearm.

So true. Although all internet feedback must be fed through the bs filter when I detect this "ego investiture" at play it's a huge red flag. Unfortunately it happens all to often. Those people may have had something important to say but they threw away the opportunity by getting personally involved.