Have you seen Smith & Wesson M&P triggers lately?

[HOOfan_1]

dont know how these guns can make the market, if they continue i feel they will go down as fast as the Titanic ast week after my wife sort of gave on the XDM, I got her a new PPQ M2 in 9mm, trigger is a BIG improvement that the S&W or the Springfield,

Chet

I'm pretty sure S&W has sold more M&Ps and Springfield has sold more XDs than Walther had sold PPQs...or P99s.

So not sure why you think those companies are "going down"

 

[Thermactor]

The fact that the M&P shares exactly ZERO physical parts or design elements with the Sigma does not keep you from making this absurd claim. I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that you might be a fan-boy of brand-x pistols.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_&_Wesson_M&P
"The M&P is a direct evolution of the Sigma"

http://i.imgur.com/NV0cb.gif

Fair disclosure: I owned a Sigma before. And I've studied the M&P in some detail.
Here's a detailed video going over them side-by-side
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAN4R4muxSw

That would be a pretty good bet....they tend to believe "only glock makes guns" type stuff.

I dislike my Glock. I think I shot my old Sigma better. And neither the Sigma, nor the M&P, nor the Glock, are bad guns at all. They are reliable, simple (few parts to break), have plenty of aftermarket support, and with some work can have the triggers tuned very, very nicely.

Bringing the post back to the original topic, I think the need to please this lawmaker or that pressure group has forced Smith & Wesson to make the new factory M&P trigger suboptimal.

 

[Chetc]

i have the springfields 1911a's great guns, but their striker triggers leave alot to be desired, and the same for the XDM,s the pull is so long, and even with an aftermarket trigger it still does not nowhere rival the PPQ trigger or the H&K vP9, and no doubt as one user said they sold more guns then Walthers ect, but when you have owned them and you would have an idea what i am trying to say. believe me i hated to take the loss on selling them, actually i am really liking my glock 17, which i thought i would never get used too, at this point i am not going to buy and more guns unless i can try them at a range ect, taking too much of a loss just trying guns, actually the canik tp9sa has a trigger that i feel is close on par with the ppq and the vp9, not crazy about the overall build, for the money it is a fair deal.

chet

 

[tipoc]

From the wiki article cited...

The M&P is a direct evolution of the Smith & Wesson Sigma design but does not share parts compatibility with the Sigma.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_&_Wesson_M&P

Sometimes the complete sentence is revealing.

I'm not sure who wrote the piece on wiki but it's claim that the M&P is a direct "descendant" of the Sigma but is completely different, is like stating that the High Power is a direct descendant of the 1911 but also has no parts compatibility. So OK. They could as easily and truthfully say that the M&P is inspired by the success of Glock but aims to do them better.

Also the video that was cited to show the similarity between the M&P and the Sigma is a review of the M&P and the SD40 and begins by saying the SD40 is quite different from the Sigma.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAN4R4muxSw

tipoc

 

[MarshallDodge]

I cleaned up the trigger on my M&P40, put some Super Lube grease on the contact points, and proceeded to shoot a tiny ragged hole at 21 feet which is about as good as I can do with my Les Baer.

My understanding is that the full size 9mm has some accuracy issues but the 9c shoots fine.

 

[Edcnh]

I just got an M&P 9mm and have only put 50 rounds thru it. The trigger seems fine for a striker fired pistol.

 

[glocknurse]

I had a M&P9 about 3 years ago with a terrible gritty trigger. I sold it quickly. Then I bought a used M&P9 with full apex carry kit and I added the aluminum trigger. It is great! Then last weekend I found a great deal on a police trade in M&P9 with a November 2014 manufacture date with night sights and 3 mags for $299. I jumped on it. The trigger is much improved over the pistol I bought 3 years prior but still no where near as good as the Apex one.

 

[gglass]

Citing a better source than Wikipedia would be a good start. Using a complete sentence instead of cherry picking a your point out of one would be even better.

Wikipedia:
"The M&P is a direct evolution of the Smith & Wesson Sigma design but does not share parts compatibility with the Sigma."

The only point I can see from the Wiki author's opinion piece is that the M&P is a direct evolution in the sense that it is Smith & Wesson's next generation of the polymer pistol. Having no shared parts or design elements means that it is not truly a direct evolution of a design. If you had made the point that the SD line of pistols is an evolved design of the Sigma, I would be in full agreement.

 

[tipoc]

Bringing the post back to the original topic, I think the need to please this lawmaker or that pressure group has forced Smith & Wesson to make the new factory M&P trigger suboptimal.

I'm not at all convinced of that. There was no pressure on S&W in that regard.

The pressure was on them for years to build a polymer framed, striker fired gun that could compete with Glock and do them better. In that regard they succeeded.

The M&P line has better ergonomics than Glock. The M&P line is less expensive. Just like Glock the trigger is not great but is serviceable and allows for decent shooting. Just like Glock many if not most will spend money to have the trigger upgraded. Just like Glock there is a thriving aftermarket parts industry that allows for upgrades. All this in a gun that is better looking and handles better and allows shooters more options than Glock (a manual safety for example for police depts. that mandate that and for individuals who want it).

From the beginning the 45acp and 40S&W versions worked well and were accurate.

S&W made a mistake with the early 9mm guns. For some unknown reason they set the rate of twist of the barrels at the slow rate of 1-16. This created accuracy problems with 115 and 124 gr. bullets. The standard rate of twist for the 9mm was set over 100 years ago in the Luger...1-10. Every 9mm production gun made has a 1-10 rate of twist. In the last few years S&W has corrected the issue.

tipoc

 

[340PD]

Given the OP has not responded, I suspect just a troll post.

 

[zb338]

A couple of weeks ago I bought an M&P .45 from Cabela's. The trigger on it was the
worse I have ever seen on a production pistol. It is impossible to shoot with one
hand because the gun moves when the trigger finally breaks. I brought it to my
local gun store and he offered me $100 dollars for an unfired M&P on a trade. He said
that his store is filled with used M&Ps that he can't sell too well. I will probably send
it to Dan Burwell who is a wonderful M&P trigger guy. Of course it will cost me for
postage and the job itself.

Zeke

 

[Old Dog]

Given the OP has not responded, I suspect just a troll post.

Pretty much, although he's still posting in other sub-forums ... At any rate, someone willing to make extreme statements and trash an entire line of popular pistols, based on his sample of exactly one pistol, probably doesn't possess much gun knowledge or experience ... But to answer his original question, yes, yes I have seen the S&W M&P triggers, just tested a new shipment of 'em, and there's not a thing wrong with them, only, as I noted, an actual improvement over our 2008 pistols' triggers.

 

[CoThG]

I went into my LGS ready to purchase a S&W M&P core, especially after hearing that the triggers were far improved. Imagine my disappointment with the still crappy trigger. I thought about getting trigger work as I really liked the rest of the gun, but ultimately decided against it in favor of an HK VP9.

The VP may not be optics ready, but the trigger is worlds better and renders the gun far more shootable IMHO. J

Stupid choice you made. For a hundred bucks, you could have had an Apex trigger kit and had an optics ready gun. Instead, you bought the HK, which doesn't have as nice a trigger as an Apexed M&P plus you are going to have to spend a few hundred dollars to have the HK's slide milled for an optic.

 

[Chetc]

Pretty much, although he's still posting in other sub-forums ... At any rate, someone willing to make extreme statements and trash an entire line of popular pistols, based on his sample of exactly one pistol, probably doesn't possess much gun knowledge or experience ... But to answer his original question, yes, yes I have seen the S&W M&P triggers, just tested a new shipment of 'em, and there's not a thing wrong with them, only, as I noted, an actual improvement over our 2008 pistols' triggers.


Will
just to get to the point, obviously you have some gun knowledge, but at what level, please go back and read my original post, i did not bash the entire line of pistols, the m& P and the XDm are well built firearms, but as i said the triggers are not what i call good triggers, there are BETTER triggers out there, the PPQ is far advanced, the timing and lock up issue on the XDM prevents any aftermarket kits ect, to get a shorter pull, the trigger on the S&W strikers are better BUT needs an kit that cost $$$, why spend the money when the purchaser just paid premium money, i am not a real glock enthusiast but trigger parts a cheap due to its simple design, and WILL, don't get into the knowledge or experience thing. i dont want to have to explain in details on my firearm experience. if you like S&W striker's fine and dandy, i owned one S&W striker and was not thrilled with the trigger, i shot them at ranges and competitions, XDM's also, i am sure the big guys with them have a ton of work done to them, as other brands too including the PPQ and whatever you have. i have been around these guns probably, i am guessing as long or longer than you have, done many mods to triggers, machining and hardening of the wear points sears contacts ect. lets leave it at that, no reason for the OP did not respond BS.

Chet

 

[USAF_Vet]

The OP is gaining a reputation for off the wall ideas, then not supporting them with fact. Rather he continues to drown them in opinionated rhetoric that does nothing to help further his intended goal, what ever it may be.

I've got some trigger time with many different S&W handguns, both hammer fired and striker fired.

Personally, I never felt the Sigma was all that bad. But I admit I may have gotten a cherry in a field of lemons. Of course, I was also comparing the trigger to the DA trigger on my 2nd gen hammer fired 469. Compared to that, the Sigma was a dream to shoot. The direct evolution of the Sigma, the SD, didn't feel all that different to me. Again, sample size of one is not exactly scientific, rather it is opinion. Flash forward to the M&P and the Shield. I liked both, preferred them over the Sigma and SD, felt they were not a great deal different than the Glocks and XD pistols. There will be inherent flaws in virtually every mechanical design.

 

[krimmie]

I've only shot an M&P once, and really liked how accurate I was with it, although I must admit, I don't remember anything about the trigger, good or bad. Plenty of good guns out there from many manufacturers, so pick your favorite and learn how to shoot it.

 

[flphotog]

Just when you thought they couldn't get any worse...

I've never been a fan of the M&P triggers having owned a compact which had to have the trigger done, but Smith has outdone themselves in lowering the bar with what they're producing now.

The trigger on the pistol I handled was beyond bad. They changed their design and have added a mechanism that slides into the way to keep the gun from being fired if the trigger isn't pulled in a certain way. But it actually gets in the way when you try and pull the trigger!

I can't be the only one aghast at what this company is doing to their pistols. They making stock Hi Point triggers feel like they're coming from a custom shop!

I've owned several M&P's and have never had an issue with the triggers except that they were DAO. At the moment I only have 2 DAO handguns left, all the rest are SA or DA/SA, much better in my book than any DAO pistols.

 

[jhb]

I own a modern m&p pro in 40. Trigger is kinda gritty but breaks quicker and nicer than my glocks. Only issue i have with mine is getting mags to seat. Requires a super hard slam to lock in. You can push hard all day and it wont catch. Never had this issue in any other pistol other than a beat to death feg hi power copy and only certain mags would seat without a really hard slam.

 

[ddc]

FWIW: My wife has a 4" PPQ M2 and really liked the trigger. However she wanted something different so recently picked up a 5" M&P CORE for IDPA SSP use only.

I also have a PPQ and like the PPQ trigger better but the stock M&P trigger, while noticeably heavier, is not all that bad. She shoots it just fine.

She is aware of Apex kits and wants to get one someday but it's not like the barn is burning down and she needs it today.

 

[Manny]

Stupid choice you made. For a hundred bucks, you could have had an Apex trigger kit and had an optics ready gun. Instead, you bought the HK, which doesn't have as nice a trigger as an Apexed M&P plus you are going to have to spend a few hundred dollars to have the HK's slide milled for an optic.

My money, my choice, it's only stupid if I'm unhappy with the VP9, and I'm not. The notion of adding an RDS is one I'm still considering as there are pluses and minuses to both sides of the debate. I liked the suppressor sights on the core more than the other options in that line and was willing to spend the relatively modest premium just in case I ever did want to add an RDS. As it happens, I got an LE VP9, which comes with quite nice tritium sights and liked the trigger, ergonomics, euro style mag release and overall build quality far more on the HK than the M&P. I only needed to add ammo to the HK to consider it good to go, I didn't feel the same way about the M&P. I paid my money, made my choice and was happy enough with it that I added second a couple months later to ensure I would always have a spare available.

 

[kcofohio]

I may have missed it mentioned, but the M&Ps come in a few different flavors, pull wise. Some heavier to comply with Mass. gun laws, to the lighter Pro or Core models.

That said, I have done the trigger kits on both an M&P40 and on a last of the run Sigma 9mm. Both had a gritty feel to the trigger. But the gritty feel for the M&P came mainly from the striker block plunger. While the Sigma's came from the sear block, and that wasn't part of the kit.

To the OP, not sure what you are saying of the trigger appendage?

 

[mgmorden]

I own a modern m&p pro in 40. Trigger is kinda gritty but breaks quicker and nicer than my glocks. Only issue i have with mine is getting mags to seat. Requires a super hard slam to lock in. You can push hard all day and it wont catch. Never had this issue in any other pistol other than a beat to death feg hi power copy and only certain mags would seat without a really hard slam.

Try downloading the mags by 1 round - they should seat a lot easier.

For range and competition mags there's also some spring and follower modifications you can make (basically shortening the "walls" of the follower and cutting a coil or two off the spring) that will make it go away, but I wouldn't carry a mag modified like that just for reliability reasons.

 

[jhb]

Try downloading the mags by 1 round - they should seat a lot easier.

For range and competition mags there's also some spring and follower modifications you can make (basically shortening the "walls" of the follower and cutting a coil or two off the spring) that will make it go away, but I wouldn't carry a mag modified like that just for reliability reasons.

good advice, thanks appreciated.

 

[FireInCairo]

I recognize this forum is loaded with S&W fans. That's why it's important to hear another point of view on the matter.

People who aren't familiar, and are thinking about buying an S&W should be aware.

The fact that there's a massive market to replace the triggers should say something in and of itself.

Go to your LGS if they're a Smith dealer and if you start looking at their pistols the first thing the sales guy is going to do is let you know you can upgrade the triggers.

Then, dryfire it and see for yourself. Watch the muzzle, they're still heavy, the design looks like it's made from very cheap plastic and feels worse than the older version.

I was actually considering a Shield. It's not my intent to trash S&W, I honestly was willing to give them a shot, but the trigger was awful.

But, of course, we've all got our opinions on the matter!

 

[USAF_Vet]

Right, because there is no aftermarket for Glock.