Having rust issues. What rust inhibitor to use.

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Arkansas Paul

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Hey guys. I'm having trouble with my CVA Optima Elite accumulating some light rust. It's happening on the frame where the firing pin comes through, sometimes making the gun hard to break open. At times, the firing pin sticks, and won't retract back into the frame and I have to work with it.

I'm using Pyrodex pellets and I always clean it the day I shoot it.

What do you guys use for rust prevention? I've wiped it down with T/C rust prevent pre soaked patches and I've tried Barricade, which I know isn't marketed for BP, but I figured it was worth a try. Neither seem to be working. I don't know a whole lot about BP, so any help you can give would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
 
Barricade is the best rust preventative I've found, and I use it on all my black powder guns.

Your problem is that you're not getting the water out. No rust preventative will work well if the surfaces have trapped water on them. The water is probably coming from the Pyrodex as a combustion by-product, but there are many possible sources including condensation or the base material for the Bore Foam.

I suggest using a water displacement liquid in the joint between cleaning and applying the Barricade. WD-40 is often used but I strongly prefer denatured alcohol for that purpose. Be sure the joint is thoroughly wetted and operate it several times to give the liquid the ability to migrate between the parts. Do not apply heat to dry it out; simply let it dry naturally. Then apply the Barricade.
 
Pyrodex is more corrosive than black powder. You have to get every speck of Pyrodex residue off the gun and then apply a good gun oil. Windex Multi Task is slightly acidic; (about 3 percent white vinegar) it dissolves and neutralizes the Pyrodex residue which is a base. You can sometimes see the crud fizz when the Windex contacts it. Spray the Windex Multi Task on a cleaning patch and use it to clean the Pyrodex residue off the breech face.

Windex Multi Task makes breechplug cleanup really easy. Spray it on the breechplug and brush the crud off with an old toothbrush.

Make sure that all metal surfaces are protected with a good gun oil or CLP.
 
Thanks guys. Say, is it ok to use gun scrubber on a bp gun? It advertises that it won't rust. Haven't tried it. Just wondering.

And alsaqr, you're not the first person I've heard that uses Windex Multi Task. I'm gonna have to give that a try.
 
I found this to be the best rust and coorosion preventive on the market.

http://boeshield.com/

I started using it on my boat docked and used around salt water and it kept the engine and associated parts rest free. Not cheap and can be found in boating supply houses such as West Marine. Sears stocked it at one time.
 
Get some Renissance Wax, apply to any blued metal, will help against rust. You need only apply a "dab" of the wax, a little goes a long way!!
 
Arkansas Paul said:
Say, is it ok to use gun scrubber on a bp gun? It advertises that it won't rust. Haven't tried it. Just wondering.

Gun Scrubber from what I can remember contains basically the same thing as brake parts cleaner, which I've used for years on shotguns (smokeless) with great success. Unfortunately I grabbed my can of Gun Scrubber that I had left over one day and used it on a BP revolver, the results were aggravating to say the least.

Black Powder is "Water Soluble", using a petroleum based solvent such as Gun Scrubber won't do you much good and in my experience seemed to make the residue even harder after I applied it. Fingers McGee posted in #6 "Ballistol". Although I don't have any experience for your part of the country as far as rust prevention is concerned, Ballistol mixed 50/50 with water is a great way to clean a BP gun, as long as you can get past the smell. Then after cleaning Ballistol straight for lubrication and rust control.

I think that most on this forum will agree that petroleum based products and Black Powder just isn't they way to make your life easier. Although Ballistol is a petroleum distillate, it will hold water in suspension for a prolonged period of time. That combination of water and Ballistol removeds BP residue quickly and once wiped down and re-oiled with Ballistol does inhibit corrosion.

Mykeal's suggestion regarding denatured alcohol is also a good one with one caveat, make sure that you wear gloves. Denatured alcohol can and will absorb through your skin and some formulas are extremely toxic, others will just get you buzzed, you don't want to find out which one you are using the hard way.
 
If you can remove the firing pin, you might consider putting into a neutralizer bath. There may be residual bluing solution on it that will always cause it to rust. Give it ten minutes in baking soda dissolved in (distilled or mineral free) water and brought to a boil would do the trick. When you pull it out of the bath, the metal should be hot enough to dry immediately. Then hit it with some modern gun oil.
 
I've had good luck cleaning with TC #13 BP solvent, Rusty Duck Black Off, and with CVA Barrel Blaster BP solvents. I wipe down with Ballistol after completely drying. I swab the barrel with Bore Butter.
Brake cleaner will leave your gun thoroughly degreased, with no residue. It's great for cleaning the factory oil off, prior to lubing and shooting for the first time. Some Brake cleaners actually have water in them and take a while to dry out. Those would be better for cleaning the fouling than the brake cleaners without. I don't remember which ones have water in them. We ran out of Toyota brake cleaner at work once and had to use an aftermarket brake cleaner that had water in it. It stunk like bug poison.
I had a buddy who used carburetor cleaner to shoot his homemade 20 gauge BP slug gun. It worked well for removing the carbon based deposits. I don't like the smell of it and wouldn't use it in the house. Besides, his barrel was made from a 1-3/8" OD x 5/8" ID hollow hydraulic cylinder rod. It was chrome plated inside and out. The chrome plating probably did more to prevent rust than anything else. Carb cleaner, at least the one he used, contains no water.
You'd do as well to use ammonia based window cleaner, or make some soapy ammonia water to clean your BP guns(if using real black powder, vinegar bearing windex if using Pyro), if not better than brake or carb cleaner.
I may make a batch of soapy water with ammonia and alcohol, provided ammonia won't react with alcohol. If so, I'll just use soapy ammonia water or windex, followed by denat alcohol to dry it.
You can buy alcohol bearing, foaming aerosol window cleaner from auto parts stores. It may work as well as anything. Don't know yet. Will have to try some and see.

Ballistol seems to work as well as anything for rust prevention. I use it on BP and smokeless arms as well as carbon steel knives to prevent rust. It seems to work well on leather and horn, also, to prevent drying/cracking.

You could always use windshield washer fluid, it's basically soapy water with alcohol.
An aerosol can of Ballistol and a non-aerosol can of Ballistol are 2 very good investments. The liquid is great for swabbing and wiping, as well as mixing with water for cleaning, and using as a patch lube. The aerosol is great for getting to the spots that are harder to access.
JB or Break Free bore paste and Kroil penetrating oil are great tools to have on hand too. The bore paste is great for cleaning barrels/cylinders, and the Kroil is great for removing stuck nipples, or anything else that's stuck/rusted.
Kroil smells like Pine Sol, so, you may or may not like the smell. Regardless, it's a fantastic penetrating oil. I first learned of it in A&P school and now keep a pen oiler full of it in my shirt pocket at work, as well as a can of it in my shop at home. It works well for loosening lead/copper fouling in smokeless arms. Swab the barrel with it and let it sit for a few days.
a 50/50 mix of kerosene/automatic transmission fluid was tested by a major car magazine about 8 years ago and found to be as good as Kroil (the best of the store-bought penetrating oils).
I don't tend to use transmission fluid mixed with acetone as a penetrant, because kerosene is a better penetrant, and acetone will attack plastic/rubber/stock finishes/etc. It's also HIGHLY FLAMMABLE.

If you want to use acetone in your solvent, you can always mix up some Ed's Red. It's basically equal parts ATF/kerosene/acetone/mineral spirits and, if you want, a little lanolin. With the lanolin, it makes a better lube and protectant.
Ed's Red is a smokeless powder solvent, and would need to be cleaned from your BP gun prior to shooting it, but will work great for freeing stuck/rusted parts.
Brownells sells it, but you can find the formula for it here: http://home.comcast.net/~dsmjd/tux/dsmjd/tech/eds_red.htm

The acetone is a fast acting solvent for smokeless powder residue, as nitrocellulose is solvent in acetone.
One caveat, mineral spirits is not very different from kerosene, and is functionally interchangeable. The naphtha based solvents he mentions are more akin to Coleman fuel.

If you use acetone or Coleman fuel(naphtha, cigarette lighter fluid) you'll want to use it outside, due to the fumes.

I used turpentine(as per the original formula) instead of acetone, because it's what I had on hand. Plus, acetone is at least as flammable as turpentine, if not more so, so the flammability of turpentine is a non-issue, imho.


BTW, excellent info on the rust test. I hate that he didn't test Dexron. It prevents rust better than motor oils. I've never had good luck with Rem Oil. I'd like to see him test Break Free LP as well as CLP, and also carnauba wax, such as stock wax, or aerosol car wax. I used to use carnauba wax on m carry pistols and never had one rust. My sweat can rust nearly any steel, and gun oil is no help. The wax did the trick.
 
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Gun Scrubber is nothing more than relabeled expensive as hell brake parts cleaner.

I like Bore Butter. Acadmey carries it. It's cheap and I'm not fond of anything that sprays from a can when it comes to lubing my muzzleloaders and revolvers.

Where in Arkansas are you from ?
 
In over 45 years I clean with either plain water or blue windschield washer
stuff. Wipe dry, then WD-40. Haven't had any rust in 45 years. You don't
need anything else.
 
Break Free

Been using Break Free since back in the seventies on my modern guns and rust has never been a problem. So a couple years ago when I moved over to the dark side I continued using it on my BP guns and so far I haven't seen any rust at all. At times it gets pretty humid here too, especially in the summer. I know everyone has their on own preference and and I'm sure there are some good products out there, but for me......If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
 
A fellow at the traditional mler forum did a test of a number of products. I will try to find the link. The best tested was Eezox...no rust after months in a humid box.
Pete

At the trad mler forum, look under general muzzleloading for "eezox for muzzleloaders".
p
 
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For black powder I have been using water and a bucket to clean. Then place in oven and bake at approx 150 F for 30 mins (light surface rust will appear but wipes off). Lightly wipe down all metal surfaces with olive oil. The warm metal will soak up the oil and not make a big mess.

Pietta 1858 Remington cap and ball works well with this treatment. As a bonus no hang or misfires with a natural oil with blackpowder. Petroleum based distillates have been known to cause ignition problems.
 
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