rust preventitive?

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moooose102

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i am curious, several of you guys posted about not using "dino oils" in bp guns. is there a problem with using petrolium oils to prevent rust in and outside the barrel? when i cleaned my optima last night. i used mobil 1 mixed with stp as a rust presenitive. i have used this combo to prevent rust for some time on conventional guns. i just run 2 clean dry patches through the bore priot to shooting. is there going to be a problem doing this with bp? or should i go out and buy some bore butter or some other item. crisco, bag baum, oleo, olive oil? just kidding! i really have no idea what i used on my bk-92, my memory is shot.
 
Dino oils are wicked nasty on leather's, but will prevent any rust and corrosion on ferous metals most certainly.

Woods can be affected with this kinds of oil as well, but may not be noticed in a single life time, and then maybe you can...

Then there are your own hands to consider. Engine oils are not the best for your skin, but shouldn't hurt you much in this light contact. Since it is BP yer gonna get stinky anyway right?
 
The downside to "dino oil" has been pretty well covered above. Additionally I think that there are several modern products that do a far better job of staying put and protecting the metal.
 
ZeSpectre, (and the rest of you guys) PLEASE , tell me your opinions, that is why i asked?! i know that the oil/stp will migrate, i also know i dont even want to think about cleaning grease out of the barrel ! i am a former mechanic, so almost everthing that goes on my brain is evaluated by my past experiences. and i used a LOT of dino products in that profession!
 
My opinion:

Petroleum based oils and solvents do not mix well with black powder combustion products.

I do not knowingly use any petroleum based oils or solvents on any of my black powder guns. Anyplace. Common sense says that using such products in areas that are not exposed to black powder combustion products (like anyplace outside a rifle bore) is not a problem, so my attitude is a bit obsessive. But that way I don't have to deal with making mistakes or the oils creeping somewhere I don't want because I used too much.

There are a number of rust preventative products made for use with black powder guns; Hoppe's No. 9 Plus for Black Powder comes to mind as a cleaning solvent. Many people use Ballistol. Thomson Center markets products called No. 13 and TC-17. Some people use vegetable base food oils (olive oil, peanut oil); they are not generally good for long term storage because they can spoil and become rancid, but they are superb for short term use. I use Bore Butter, but many people claim it does not work for long term rust prevention. So far I've seen no problems, but maybe someday...

As I said above, it's good to avoid exposing black powder combustion products to petroleum base oils. However, for long term storage it's perfectly ok to (thoroughly!) clean out the combustion products with hot water or your favorite solvent and then immediately apply a thin coat of oil. After storage it's important to clean the oil out before shooting the gun, but there's no reason that can't be done.
 
I'm not positive, but I think petroleum products will damage the charcoal bluing of older BP guns and their repros.
 
Mooose, now that you bring it up there are some things that are just not done because you were told by the old hands not to do it. One of these things is not using dino lubes with black powder firearms. I was told back in 1964 to never use dino lubes because you would be cursed with the "BLACK TAR" that would occur when black powder is used in the presence of dino lubes. So never wanting to be cursed with the "BLACK TAR" I never did it and still don't. I've found that Bore Butter, Clenzoil, and Ballistol work just fine for corrosion protection and that olive oil and Crisco work great as gun oil and grease.
Go ahead take a chance and tempt the fate of being afflected with the dreaded "BLACK TAR" and if you're not and the dreaded "BLACK TAR" doesn't get you let us know.
That's taking one for the team.
 
ZeSpectre, Might I guess you are, or you were red haired?

I read both reports.. Great stuff

I might like to find a souce for these items you have "tested", but that day will be many days away from today as getting down to Kittery Maine is a far trip over a bottle of oil no matter how good it is, in winta'.

I fear what you have done is show this ol' geezer that some new things might not be too bad, and could even be good.

NH USA can be just a tad humid year round.. just a tad.
 
Yeah I realized after the fact that the OP was asking about Blackpowder so I must confess my error and admit that I've had very little experience with blackpowder. What experience I've had is secondhand from guys at CAS matches.

They swear by using HOT (boiling hot that is) water and swabbing out the blackpowder guns and then after it's dried using the lube of choice. My lube of choice for those conditions would probably be the Gunzilla because you can spray it on and it'll get EVERYWHERE and in my own testing it seems to be a decent rust preventative.

If you find someone with more BP experience than me I'd go with whatever THEY say to do <grin>.
 
Petro oils

Hey there:
I've said this many times before. The only BP gun I ever had rust was my first.
I used Petro oil to clean and lube it.
I learned a costly lesson. The problem is when we clean BP guns Water is the only thing that will kill the corrosive effects of the BPs. There are as many ways of cleaning BP guns as one can see by all these post.
Seems everyone has some secret formula. The facts are that some BP guns can be expensive. The finish may not tolerate petro oil. Petro oil does nothing to disolve or kill the corrosive effects of the Black Powders. Next you can end up with another problem. Petro oils run and do not stay where you put them.
This means swabing or cleaning your gun before shooting or risking a fouled load or flash hole.
The guys that get away with using petro oils use those guns often. Put one away till next year and you may not like what you find. Unless that gun was cleaned to bare steel and zero powder residue left behind apetro oil may rust things more then you want to come back to.
The natural lubes are not epensive. I see this all the time. Why is it that so many are trying to find ways around using what has been recomended for 100s of years.:confused:
 
Here's a thought...................why does Knight sell it's own oil and grease (petro-based) for their rifles if it was bad for them?

That said, I do believe that it is not a good thing to shoot BP through a bore slathered up with a dino oil. That's why I always swab out my bore with some dry patches and, if possible, a patch or two of denatured alcohol to make sure T-Rex is out of the bore before shooting.

Personally, I typically use FP-10, Mili-tec oil, or even Knight's oil in my Knight when I put it up. This is after I have it cleaned it thoroughly. This process has never caused a problem in either the 8 years I've had this rifle or the 6 years I've had my cap & ball.
 
Ok my two cents.

All of my guns are heavily coated with oil inside and out. Everyone has been telling me that petroleum when used as a lubricant will gum up inside your barrel. This will make it so that you have to scrub the barrel more.


HOWEVER

I dont care for one. I coat my guns heavily with oil to prevent rust. They all look brand new and some are well over 20 plus years old. When i decide to go shooting the day before i wipe them down removing the surface rust. Then i run a thick patch through the bore. After that i run down a patch with Rubbing alcohal. This will remove the rest of the oil. For my black powder guns. i then run a light coat of bore butter down the barrel. then im good to go. When i get home after shooting i clean it up really really good then recoat everythin with oil.
 
I knew it! I have no idea why, but red heads have the worst time with acid skin ,and ferous metals. I make knives of carbon steel amoung other things, and any time I don't wide a blade down right after a red head touches the steel, finger prints etch into the blades.

I wasn't planning to ask you on a date if that's what you had been thinking...
 
Heh, wasn't worried about a date. Figured it was either the "acid sweat" thing or the "chemically sensitive" thing. Us redheads seem to be prone to both in spades. It was hell on my old nickel-plated cuffs when I did LE work too!

Side note/Trivia for the day: Did you know that it's roughly 25% more difficult to anesthetize a redhead and we are about 75% more likely to be ill from the anesthetics afterwards? (I can't tell you how much I hate dental visits).
 
No I didn't know that about the meds.. I work in sterling silver too, and made 2" wide bracllets for a man who was red headed. He ordered 2. The day he came to pick these up he put them on. About 4 hours passed and he called on the phone to say he was being shocked!

I have no idea on that score either, but a few weeks later I spoke with him again and he said the silver was black! Well I know silver turns black in time with acid rains and the acid air from cars, but I got to see these and the edges were raggedy, and when he sai black he meant real black.

The underside where his skin touched was like anodized black and solid.

At that point I took my work back, re-cut the edges and re-polished to de grease the undersides and shot that part in clear laquer.

But we both know sooner or latter he wore the laquer off.
 
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