Hawaii could be first to put gun owners in federal database

[Aim1]

So it starts..............




http://bigstory.ap.org/article/0579...ould-be-first-put-gun-owners-federal-database

Hawaii could be first to put gun owners in federal database

By MARINA STARLEAF RIKER

May. 24, 2016 6:42 AM EDT

HONOLULU (AP) — Hawaii could become the first state in the United States to enter gun owners into an FBI database that will automatically notify police if an island resident is arrested anywhere else in the country.

Most people entered in the "Rap Back" database elsewhere in the U.S. are those in "positions of trust," such as school teachers and bus drivers, said Stephen Fischer of the FBI's Criminal Justice Information Services Division. Hawaii could be the first state to add gun owners. "I don't like the idea of us being entered into a database. It basically tells us that they know where the guns are, they can go grab them" said Jerry Ilo, a firearm and hunting instructor for the state. "We get the feeling that Big Brother is watching us."

Supporters say the law would make Hawaii a leader in safe gun laws. Allison Anderman, a staff attorney at the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence, said the bill was "groundbreaking," and that she hadn't heard of other states introducing similar measures. Sen. Will Espero, who introduced the bill, and the Honolulu Police Department said Hawaii could serve as a model for other states if it becomes the first to enact the law.

Yet others say gun owners shouldn't have to be entered in a database to practice a constitutional right.

 

[TfflHndn]

If there was any logical connection between Uncle Sam knowing the identity of gun owners and gun "safety" maybe I could understand this. But Hawaii is simply hostile to gun owners, period. Has nothing to do with safety, and everything to do with suppressing ownership. Combine that with the police policy of ignoring drug use and trafficking and it's clear that Hawaii prefers to cater to tourists and liberals, and ignore law-abiding conservative residents. Not sorry I don't live there any more.

 

[Flechette]

Just say no.

 

[Devonai]

The Rap Back program does not appear to do what these people in HI seem to want it to do.

From the FBI's website:

The Rap Back Service provides authorized agencies with notification of criminal, and, in limited cases, civil activity of individuals that occurs after the initial processing and retention of criminal or civil transactions. Rap Back does not provide new authority to agencies, including the FBI, for collection of biometric and biographical information. It does, however, implement new response services to notify agencies of subsequent activity for individuals enrolled in the service. Including a more timely process of confirming suitability of those individuals placed in positions of trust and notification to users of criminal activity for those individuals placed on probation or parole.

 

[stchman]

Another good reason to NOT move to Hawaii.

 

[Coop45]

Can't. don't have square feet.

 

[Aim1]

This could a good thing, especially at this time.



This proves exactly what gun owners have been saying forever that the end game is registration and eventually confiscation.

 

[Devonai]

Based on the resource I posted above, and other sources easily found on Google, it appears that this would duplicate the NICS check already accomplished after the submission of a 4473, with two important differences:

1. Buyers would have to submit fingerprints to the FBI through Hawaii's Department of Public Safety (or equivalent).

2. Buyers could be flagged for any arrest, regardless of subsequent indictment or conviction.

I see this as a dead-end for no other reason than the FBI has to agree to all of this, which appears to be a novel use for the Rap Back program. I don't think they would take kindly to Hawaii telling them how to do their job.

 

[RPRNY]

At present the HI proposal would constitute an unfunded mandate by the state imposed on the federal government. That's not how the federal government rolls. THEY impose unfunded mandates on the states. It could be rectified, fiscally, by the state imposing yet another "fee" on gun owners, but it would require the feds to cater to the state, and when Justice considers that it would open the feds to liability in the event that Rap Back failed to prevent gun crime in HI, watch them run...

 

[Carl N. Brown]

It's not a bill.

It's law.

"Governor Ige signs bill putting gun owners in FBI database", Hawaii News Now, Thu 23 Jun 2016, 11:53pm.
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/...signs-bill-putting-gun-owners-in-fbi-database

Alex Dobuzinskis, "Hawaii becomes first U.S. state to place gun owners on FBI database", Reuters, Fri 24 Jun 2016.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/hawaii-becomes-first-u-state-place-gun-owners-210248882.html

Gov. David Ige (Democrat) signed SB 2954 making Hawaii the first state to enter gun owners in the Rap Back system for criminal record monitoring.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/fingerprints_biometrics/ngi
CNB note: Rap Back is part of NGI Next Generation Identification.

Rap Back
The Rap Back service allows authorized agencies to receive notification of activity on individuals who hold positions of trust (e.g. school teachers, daycare workers) or who are under criminal justice supervision or investigation, thus eliminating the need for repeated background checks on a person from the same applicant agency. Prior to the deployment of Rap Back, the national criminal history background check system provided a one-time snapshot view of an individual’s criminal history status. With Rap Back, authorized agencies can receive on-going status notifications of any criminal history reported to the FBI after the initial processing and retention of criminal or civil transactions. By using fingerprint identification to identify persons arrested and prosecuted for crimes, Rap Back provides a nationwide notice to both criminal justice and noncriminal justice authorities regarding subsequent actions.

Hawaiian gun owners (who must pass a NICS BG check to legally buy a gun in the first place) will be entered on the FBI Rap Back list of sensitive people; Hawaiian police agencies are going to get constant updates on the background check status changes of all registered Hawaiian gun owners.

If the promoters of this have their way, the FBI Rap Back database will be bloated with the 65 to 80 million law abiding U.S. gun owners. Rap Back was set up to monitor criminal activities by those under investigation or in certain job positions requiring BG check.

 

[Acera]

Gotta hope the courts take care of it. They are more loony than cali..............

 

[MagnunJoe]

Yes, the courts might take care of this in 2 or 3 years...


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[Scooter22]

Makes sense. Isn't it rumored O"BS is thinking of retiring there.?

 

[Warp]

I didn't realize people in HI actually owned guns, and that if they did, they wouldn't be on all kinds of lists already.

I guess I see the extra step here but if HI gun owners are already registered, shouldn't they be worried about what the state is doing already?

 

[230RN]

See my signature line:

Trouble is, these jerkwads can pass dumb, self-serving, agenda-driven stupid laws much faster than we can beat them down in the courts. And they're well aware of that, so they keep on doing it.

Again.

 

[MagnunJoe]

Not to mention that if u go see a shrink for whatever reason the govt. might deem U dangerous.


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[Midwest]

If people ask what is the state with the worst gun laws. It is Hawaii, just beating out New Jersey for first place.

1. FBI Database of gun owners.

2. All guns are registered.

3. Purchase permit needed for handguns AND long guns

4. Assault weapons ban for pistols.

5. Ten round magazine limit.

7. Most NFA weapons banned.

8. Conceal Carry permit impossible to get for the average citizen.
.

 

[Onmilo]

If people ask what is the state with the worst gun laws. It is Hawaii, just beating out New Jersey for first place.

1. FBI Database of gun owners.

2. All guns are registered.

3. Purchase permit needed for handguns AND long guns

4. Assault weapons ban for pistols.

5. Ten round magazine limit.

7. Most NFA weapons banned.

8. Conceal Carry permit impossible to get for the average citizen.
.

Magnum P.I. had a CCP,,,,,
We must all remember that Hawaii is a state awash in terrorists that legally buy firearms...

 

[Speedo66]

Terrorists can't afford to go there on vacation.

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

Too crowded and too expensive and not quite the "aloha" filled melting pot they like to advertise. (Try being a haole on the leeward side after sunset... )
And to think that I used to live there...

 

[230RN]

...But Hawaii is simply hostile to gun owners, period. Has nothing to do with safety, and everything to do with suppressing ownership.

I've been on the Hawaiian gun board,

(referral link):
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?action=refferals;refferedby=23

for a couple of years now. They're a small but dedicated group of gun owners.

The thing about it is their constitution quotes the U.S. constitution's second Amendment verbatim (in the english translation). Even the owner (Chris Baker) of that site had a companion case to Peruta, which was shot down by the ninth circuit.

Yet all the recent decisions by the U.S. Supreme Court supporting gun rights (and incorporated to the states) are completely ignored by the Hawaiian state and local authorities.

One would expect the same logic would apply to both statements, right?

But noooooo.

What that tells me is that even their own constitution is regarded simply as "just a piece of paper" --and this attitude seems to be spreading to many areas of the mainland.

Terry, 230RN

 

[DennisTheMenace]

I previously lived in Hawaii while serving in the US Air Force. I dutifully registered my firearms when I arrived. I don't recall any process for un-registering when I left in 1992. Can anyone suggest what agency in Hawaii I might contact to see if they plan to enter me in the FBI database?

Dennis

 

[deadin]

I guess if you own a gun in Hawaii you are a potential criminal.

I thought profiling was illegal.

 

[Devonai]

As I've stated earlier in this thread, I find it hard to believe that the FBI would accept this particular use of the "Rap Back" program, nor the increased workload that comes with it.

A Democrat rep was on Fox News recently, defending this law. She maintained that the constitution doesn't apply because it's a strictly state-level measure. The host (Tucker Carlson I believe) asked her that once you get the FBI involved, don't you involve the constitution? She didn't have much to say to that.

 

[230RN]

DennisTheMenace asked,

I previously lived in Hawaii while serving in the US Air Force. I dutifully registered my firearms when I arrived. I don't recall any process for un-registering when I left in 1992. Can anyone suggest what agency in Hawaii I might contact to see if they plan to enter me in the FBI database?

Dennis

https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?action=refferals;refferedby=23

Go to that site and ask. You'll have to register with the site to post your question, but what the heck, you're already registered with the PD there anyhow. It might be in their FAQs anyway.

Frankly, I'd let it go. You might incur risk by "admitting" you moved the guns to another state, where the new state has restrictions about "importing" guns to there. Dunno for sure about that, but it's just my geriatric paranoia talking.

My experience with data base managers is that they're data junkies and never actually, really, honestly delete data thoroughly:

"Mount tape from archives?"

Every little "bit" of information might be important "someday," after all.

Terry