HD: pistol or shotgun?

[Skribs]

My first job would be to ensure that my family and myself survive. I'd pick the tool that best helps me accomplish that task and then worry about the noise.

The argument against that logic is that in one study (linked elsewhere on this site, and you'll notice my rounding fudges the total to 101%) showed that 55% off attacks are commited by 2 people, 25% by 1, 20% by 3, and 1% by 4 or more. Which means more than 75% of the time, there is at least one other person involved. If your hearing is impaired after stopping the first assailant, you might not hear the second.

The counterarguments are of course that you can have hearing protection available, and that the overall difference in decible isn't that much. Can't rebut to the first counter (electronic hearing protection still lets you hear what's going on) but you can talk about sound duration and the direction of the blast with a muzzle brake.

Overall, though, I agree with you - the sound is a secondary concern for me. However, I also don't think you give up much by having a shotgun instead of an AR. My primary HD weapon right now is a shotgun.

 

[allaroundhunter]

Skribs, a 12 ga with an 18" barrel will be just as loud as an AR with a 16" barrel.

Sent from my HTC One X

 

[FAS1]

Primary would be my handgun since it's secured on my bed frame and would be the closest in the middle of the night. If I felt like I needed to retreat it would be toward my safe where my 12 gauge is loaded with 00 Buck.

 

[BBQLS1]

The argument against that logic is that in one study (linked elsewhere on this site, and you'll notice my rounding fudges the total to 101%) showed that 55% off attacks are commited by 2 people, 25% by 1, 20% by 3, and 1% by 4 or more. Which means more than 75% of the time, there is at least one other person involved. If your hearing is impaired after stopping the first assailant, you might not hear the second.

The counterarguments are of course that you can have hearing protection available, and that the overall difference in decible isn't that much. Can't rebut to the first counter (electronic hearing protection still lets you hear what's going on) but you can talk about sound duration and the direction of the blast with a muzzle brake.

Overall, though, I agree with you - the sound is a secondary concern for me. However, I also don't think you give up much by having a shotgun instead of an AR. My primary HD weapon right now is a shotgun.

We can ask some people who have had to shoot an AR in closed quarters as I haven't and don't intend to, but here are my thoughts:

I best most people will survive without significant hearing loss.
Electronic hearing protection is mostly junk.... maybe all. I've never found any worth having.

A shotgun is a significant weapon for HD. I have one and that's one of two tools I'll use.

Still an AR has significant advantages in the right configuration:

Smaller
Lighter
Less Recoil for faster follow up or changing targets
Easily adaptable to Optics and Lights
Less penetration through walls
Easily configures to the size of the shooter
High capacity for multiple targets

 

[easyg]

As nice as the rifle or shotgun is, the handgun is the weapon that you're most likely to have within arm's reach when you really need a firearm.

For self defense, in the home and outside the home, the handgun rules.

 

[Skribs]

As nice as the rifle or shotgun is, the handgun is the weapon that you're most likely to have within arm's reach when you really need a firearm.

For self defense, in the home and outside the home, the handgun rules.

That all depends on your HD plan and where you place your guns. Lots of people have a long gun within arms reach while they're sleeping. I have a handgun, but long guns aren't too far off. Just because "it might be closer" doesn't mean that it's the best option.

That would be like saying "I have a Taurus in my driveway, therefore it is a better car than a Porsche."

 

[easyg]

Evil can strike at any time, and often without any warning whatsoever.
And the rifle (or the shotgun) is most likely not going to be at hand when you really need it.....


Are you going to have your rifle with you when you're walking down your driveway to get the mail?

Are you going to have your rifle at hand when walking your dog around the yard or down the street?

Are you going to have your rifle in your hand when answering the door bell?

Are you going to have your rifle at hand while you're relaxing on the deck or front porch, sipping a cold beverage?

Are you going to have your rifle at hand when you're working on your car in the garage?

Are you going to have your rifle at hand when you're working in the yard or the garden?

Are you going to have your rifle at hand when you step out to turn off the lawn sprinkler before going to bed?

Do you keep your rifle beside you when you're sitting at the dinner table with the wife and kids?

Do you carry your rifle with you when you go in to the kitchen to fix yourself a sandwich or a drink?

Do you carry your rifle with you when you have to answer nature's call and go to the bathroom?

How easy or quickly can you get to your rifle while you're in your truck waiting for the light to change?

Do you carry your rifle while walking from your house to your truck?

Do you carry your rifle while walking from your truck to your workplace?

Do you carry your rifle when grocery shopping or pumping gas?

Do you have your rifle at hand while washing your truck?

 

[Skribs]

Are you going to have your rifle with you when you're walking down your driveway to get the mail?
Are you going to have your rifle at hand when walking your dog around the yard or down the street?

In these cases, no.

Are you going to have your rifle in your hand when answering the door bell?

Personally, no, but some people have a long gun present near their door. I have 3 flights of stairs between me and the front door (condo with an intercom) so I'm not worried about the doorbell.

Are you going to have your rifle at hand when you're working on your car in the garage?

Well, I have a parking space, not a garage, but for those with a garage it depends on where they keep their long guns. Some people might have one or two in the garage, it would be close.

Do you carry your rifle with you when you have to answer nature's call and go to the bathroom?

At night, the long gun is closer than the handgun if I'm using the restroom. Handgun is on my desk right next to my bed, shotgun is in the closet between my bed and my bathroom. During the day, handgun is either on me or in a holster somewhere. If I leave it in the holster and og to the bathroom, and someone breaks in during that time, then my long gun would actually be easier to get to.

How easy or quickly can you get to your rifle while you're in your truck waiting for the light to change?

Depending on how its stored (if you have a truck gun) it might be easier to get to than that pistol in your waistband or pocket. If you're not ankle carrying or using a car holster for your handgun, then the seatbelt and sitting position are going to make the draw a nightmare.

The point I was making is that just because a handgun is what will be closer in many situations, especially CCW, it doesn't mean that the handgun is the better option. The handgun is a compromise of convenience and one-handed use for stability and power. It certainly has its place, but if you can get to the long gun, I would say you should go for the long gun.

 

[Sam1911]

Depending on how its stored (if you have a truck gun) it might be easier to get to than that pistol in your waistband or pocket. If you're not ankle carrying or using a car holster for your handgun, then the seatbelt and sitting position are going to make the draw a nightmare.

You cannot, CANNOT, fight (defensively) effectively with a stowed long-gun inside an automobile with anything like the ease of a handgun, regardless of where you carry it.

You could, possibly, get your hands on it sooner, but orienting it to an attacking bad guy, pointing/aiming it at all, retaining it, etc. are all about as close to a "lost cause" as you can get.

Military personnel are often trained to fire carbines FROM within vehicles, but those are offensive, or longer-range defensive, uses, and they ride with those arms at the ready, and can engage while the attacker/target is still far enough away to be aimed at from a seated position, out a window.

Defending against a carjacker or hostile person after a road-raging incident or accident, with a rifle, is horridly ineffective. The examples often pointed to where someone did defend themself well with a rifle stored in their vehicle have all proved to be instances where the defender was able to EXIT the vehicle and take up a firing position. (http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=8229354&postcount=179)

 

[Skribs]

Good point Sam, but the other points stand. Just because the long gun is 12 feet away instead of 3 feet away doesn't mean it's an inferior weapon for HD.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by Skribs: Lots of people have a long gun within arms reach while they're sleeping.

Fine--if that's when one needs it.

The real problem with the long arm is the possibility that one may be cut off from it; that's closely followed by the risk of having to run a foot race to get to it, possibly leaving loved ones unprotected.

 

[RmB]

An auto-loading 20 gauge

 

[Skribs]

KB, my comment isn't that you shouldn't use a handgun in HD because a long gun is superior. My comment was that just because you have a handgun on your hip or in arms reach doesn't mean it necessarily has to be your go-to gun. Yes, if someone breaks in, and my long gun is on the other side of my condo, I will be using my handgun. However, if someone breaks in while I'm in my bedroom, I will grab my handgun, but go for my long gun.

 

[Titusdrake]

Thats exactly how i feel, but may be not AR rather a G3 or AKM. To me shotgun is for hunting. I have heard many success stories with shotgun defense, but I just could understand the logic. I believe in precision and shotgun doesnt have that unless using slugs, but them you are neutralizing the benefit of spread.

Unless your house has 75 yard long hallways I dont understand what you mean by "loss of precision". "precision" with a shotgun is more deadly than precision with a pistol lemme tell ya..most situations you would want to stay put and guard a pre planned defensible position, in a stationary position the shotgun gives better killing power with a single shot.

If you are clearing your house pistol might be a better choice. I am more of a handgun guy honestly, but im all for the best tool for job. Either choice is better than none

 

[jbrown50]

Evil can strike at any time, and often without any warning whatsoever.
And the rifle (or the shotgun) is most likely not going to be at hand when you really need it.....

easyg,
I agree with you as my carry gun is always on me or nearby me even at home. On the other hand though my Benelli M2 12 Gauge is in the bedroom by the bed. It's what I'll grab first when things go bump in the night so to speak because it'll be just as close to me as the handgun and a long gun is more effective than a handgun. There's a difference between what you prefer compared to what you're more likely to have on or nearby you.

The OP asks "what do you prefer?" He prefers a Mark23 because he's not a shotgun guy.

 

[JEB]

for me, my first choice is a handgun. more manuverable, can answer the door with it in hand, and i have the most practice with it. i also dont have a smaller long gun (18" shotgun or carbine). i do hope to pick up a 16" ar at some point, but for checking on noises, answering the door, etc. the pistol will still be my first choice. if i were to feel that a threat was immenent, i would go for the carbine.

 

[mdauben]

I tend to consider my bedside pistol and under the bed shotgun to complement each other. The pistol is the quickest into action, its handy in percieved low threat situations. If I have the time and believe there is actually someone in the house, the shotgun would be my choice. Living alone, I'm in the "forting up" camp and would take cover in my bedroom while waiting for the police to arrive.

I do have a carbine, too, but I generally don't include it in my defensive planning. Perhaps I should.

 

[bri]

...and caliber enough power that when BG is well hit- he/she stays down and neutralized...

Well hit? On second-thought, I'll just leave that one alone...

Between the two, I'd pick the shotgun. I have both, readily accessible in my home. After researching lately, I think I'll add a carbine to that mix.

 

[Fred Fuller]

The usual answer is to use what you're most confident with. But that leaves out the readiness issue. This advantage of a handgun is that it can be conveniently carried on the person, all day long, concealed or open as desired, without impairing normal daily activities whatsoever.

Not so with a long gun.

Given a choice, I'll take a shotgun, because I'm one of those old rednecks who literally grew up with a shotgun in hand and shotguns are second nature to me. But I'm always carrying a sidearm...

 

[Dlowe167]

Im for both so I bought a Taurus Raging Judge. 7 shots of .45 long colt/.410 shotgun shells. If u cant handle gettin out with that. Hand it to them and appologize

 

[TAKtical]

I have fired an AR in a hallway with no hearing protection, I fired one round and it caused me complete temporary hearing loss, dizziness and blurred vision. Not helpful in a self defense situation. I vote 12 gauge semi auto shotgun. In my opinion, a center mass shot with 00buck or slug is much more likely to instantly incapacitate the BG. Whatever you decide, invest in some electronic hearing protection. It will take 1 extra second to put the muffs on.

 

[rswartsell]

+1 for Fred. Shotgun is the big dog for defense, but what you have at hand when you need it is what will get used, regardless of endless debate.

 

[Armored farmer]

I'm one of those old rednecks who literally grew up with a shotgun in hand and shotguns are second nature to me.

Me too. tens of thousands of rounds of trap through an 870 or Mod 12.
when something goes bump....I want my shotgun. It's hard to argue 1 1/4 oz of #4buck @ 1350fps.

 

[Skribs]

The usual answer is to use what you're most confident with.

While this is true for an immediate threat, "whatever you've trained on the most" isn't necessarily the best option. Since we are not in an immediate threat when we ask this question, the answer going forward could be to select what you think is the best tool (for your needs) and then get confident with that. For the time being, use what you're confident with, but moving forward increase your competence in the better suited tool.

 

[Bobson]

Dear THR:
I would like to know what do prefer a pistol (handgun) or a shotgun for home defense in suburban - rural setting?

I am not a shotgun guy so I prefer my Mark23 at night. Durable, reliable and caliber enough power that when BG is well hit- he/she stays down and neutralized.

Thank you

I haven't read through this entire thread, so I apologize if this point has been brought up already. Just thought I would add my opinion.

I prefer a shotgun for HD because I'm very comfortable with my shotgun of choice (its the firearm I've owned the longest and shot the most), and because its so widely accepted as a threat-stopper. However, since you say you're not much of a shotgun guy, and you're very comfortable with your Mk23, I'd say stick with the handgun, and rest well with your confidence in it.