EricTheBarbarian
Member
dont think all you need is hearing protection. in a sd situation you better make sure you have your safety glasses too
HD shooting and minimizing hearing damage
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Sylvan-Forge
Member
Indoors - Gas volume, Gas pressure, Room volume, Surface composition, ...
I try and keep everything below but close to 980 ft/s for hearing preservation as well as slightly better accuracy.
I want an efficient powder burn with low flash and blast and usually accomplish this with the faster powders.
My primary indoor caliber is .40 S&W.
.45 ACP seems too loud and I want a little more weight than what 9x19mm gives for busting through interior walls.
I just say no to centerfire rifles or shotguns indoors. Unless supressed of course.
As has been mentioned, auditory exclusion is usually in effect when under duress. Not sure if this helps with hearing damage.
If you go supressed, you won't get messed heh
I try and keep everything below but close to 980 ft/s for hearing preservation as well as slightly better accuracy.
I want an efficient powder burn with low flash and blast and usually accomplish this with the faster powders.
My primary indoor caliber is .40 S&W.
.45 ACP seems too loud and I want a little more weight than what 9x19mm gives for busting through interior walls.
I just say no to centerfire rifles or shotguns indoors. Unless supressed of course.
As has been mentioned, auditory exclusion is usually in effect when under duress. Not sure if this helps with hearing damage.
If you go supressed, you won't get messed
heh
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
NO. Auditory exclusion has nothing to do with hearing damage. Auditory exclusion is the brain's filtering of sensory input. Hearing damage due to high sound pressure is a mechanical deterioration of the hair structures in the ear that aid in transferring sound.
It is sort of like closing your eyes just before you are hit by car. Closing your eyes may keep you from seeing the impact, but will do nothing to change how the impact blunt force trauma affects your body.
It is sort of like closing your eyes just before you are hit by car. Closing your eyes may keep you from seeing the impact, but will do nothing to change how the impact blunt force trauma affects your body.
possum
Member
+1
Lupinus
Member
all the more reason to make surpressors legal (or well, easier to get anyway depending on your local) IMO
My local, very progressive outdoor gun club only requires that ear protection be worn by people under 18. Ear protection is optional for everyone else.
It was said there are many members who were routinely exposed to gunfire without protection in the military and there was no reason for them to wear ear protection.
I'm not sure if this is a wise policy. I can't see anything good coming of not wearing ear protection, even if you're "used to it".
This club also allows full-auto and silencers, provided you can show a tax stamp if asked. Their only limitation is "no 50 BMG". Fair enough!
Steve
It was said there are many members who were routinely exposed to gunfire without protection in the military and there was no reason for them to wear ear protection.
I'm not sure if this is a wise policy. I can't see anything good coming of not wearing ear protection, even if you're "used to it".
This club also allows full-auto and silencers, provided you can show a tax stamp if asked. Their only limitation is "no 50 BMG". Fair enough!
Steve
Michael Courtney
Member
I shot for a year or two before I started using hearing protection regularly. And I have some mild hearing loss to show for it. I'm a teacher and I often have to ask students to speak a bit louder so I can hear them. I've also shot a number of deer out of enclosed deer stands like the one pictured at my web site (link below). Even with the muzzle sticking out the window, it is a lot louder than outdoor shooting. And once or twice, I've forgotten to put on my earmuffs before the shot. Wow! That is loud.
But most hearing loss due to unprotected shooting is gradual. A single indoor deadly force encounter is unlikely to lead to a catastrauphic or immediate significant loss of hearing. The acoustics of the room and the relative location of gun and ear are usually more important than the type of firearm. Having someone else fire a gun close to your ear is much worse than when you are behind a gun that is pointed away from you.
My advice is to wear hearing protection whenever you can (hunting, target shooting, practice), but concentrate on surviving deadly force encounters and don't worry about whatever hearing loss you might sustain in these.
Michael Courtney
But most hearing loss due to unprotected shooting is gradual. A single indoor deadly force encounter is unlikely to lead to a catastrauphic or immediate significant loss of hearing. The acoustics of the room and the relative location of gun and ear are usually more important than the type of firearm. Having someone else fire a gun close to your ear is much worse than when you are behind a gun that is pointed away from you.
My advice is to wear hearing protection whenever you can (hunting, target shooting, practice), but concentrate on surviving deadly force encounters and don't worry about whatever hearing loss you might sustain in these.
Michael Courtney
Archer1945
Member
Having shot trap a couple of times with no ear protection there is no way I'd fire a 12 ga indoors. I also shot my 4" Mod 19 .357 without protection a few times and the same thing goes. However I did fire my 1911 indoors one time and would not hesitate to do it again. It was an AD, long story, but late at night and no one else in the house even heard it go off and it was not a big house. I was actually amazed since it was nothing compared to the concussion from the .357. I don't know if the loads had anything to do with it, Remington 230gr JHP, but I would not hesitate to do it again, if necessary.
I'm not sure about having eye/ear protection handy to grab at night. Two reasons; 1) Unless the ear protection is the electronic type you are going to handicap yourself by not being able to hear and 2) It is always possible the PA could use that against you in court and I wouldn't want to be a test case. The things that can be done with modern hearing aids are fantastic and I'd much rather risk my hearing than give an anti-gun prosecutor any extra ammunition to use during a trial.
I'm not sure about having eye/ear protection handy to grab at night. Two reasons; 1) Unless the ear protection is the electronic type you are going to handicap yourself by not being able to hear and 2) It is always possible the PA could use that against you in court and I wouldn't want to be a test case. The things that can be done with modern hearing aids are fantastic and I'd much rather risk my hearing than give an anti-gun prosecutor any extra ammunition to use during a trial.
Hillsideblue
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My doctor told me yesterday that a balance problem I have been having over the past few years was caused by shooting a weapon for years without hearing protection.......
Although I have no hearing loss like a lot of guys I worked with in the 60's and 70's, I do have a dizziness problem that can't be repaired....
I never go to the range without hearing protection now, but back in the day it was never even though of at the Police Range I went to monthly or sometimes weekly......
NEVER SHOOT WITHOUT EYE AND EAR PROTECTION !!!
Although I have no hearing loss like a lot of guys I worked with in the 60's and 70's, I do have a dizziness problem that can't be repaired....
I never go to the range without hearing protection now, but back in the day it was never even though of at the Police Range I went to monthly or sometimes weekly......
NEVER SHOOT WITHOUT EYE AND EAR PROTECTION !!!
pac-man-10
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Don't waste your time (and your hearing) shooting indoors without ear protection to see what it feels like. In a life threatening situation your brain will be focused on the threat (example- guy with a knife trying to stab you). Although the brain will receive the information from your ears regarding the gunshot it will disregard it because it's not as important as the input it's receiving about the threat to your life. For that reason you will likely hear the gunshot as a small "pop" or not at all and not the huge "BANG" that would be heard while shooting at the range.
However, even though you don't hear the loud bang of the gunshot in a life and death situation the damage from the loud noise still happens to your ears. I've been present twice when .40 rounds have been fired in the line of duty (both outdoors) and the gunshot seemed so quiet that it seemed more like an FX round. I guess that was a mixture of denial and adrenaline. Tunnel vision was a strong factor in both incidents. Confusion was also a factor in the one incident because a couple of us had no idea who was firing or why for a few seconds.
If I could pass along one piece of advice it's to train yourself to move after you fire and to visually scan left, right and behind you before re-holstering. Now I step off the line of attack (left or right) and scan 360 degrees around me before re-holstering/slinging when I shoot any rifle/pistol. It's very likely you will do what you train to do in a real life situation. My civilian shooting buddies think I'm f****d up to "waste" so much time at the range moving and scanning but I know it's likely I will be involved in another shooting before I retire at the end of my career.
That being said, I've always been curious if military guys involved in lots of small arms fire without ear protection actually suffer hearing loss or not. With all those M-4's being fired I would have to think hearing loss would be substantial.
However, even though you don't hear the loud bang of the gunshot in a life and death situation the damage from the loud noise still happens to your ears. I've been present twice when .40 rounds have been fired in the line of duty (both outdoors) and the gunshot seemed so quiet that it seemed more like an FX round. I guess that was a mixture of denial and adrenaline. Tunnel vision was a strong factor in both incidents. Confusion was also a factor in the one incident because a couple of us had no idea who was firing or why for a few seconds.
If I could pass along one piece of advice it's to train yourself to move after you fire and to visually scan left, right and behind you before re-holstering. Now I step off the line of attack (left or right) and scan 360 degrees around me before re-holstering/slinging when I shoot any rifle/pistol. It's very likely you will do what you train to do in a real life situation. My civilian shooting buddies think I'm f****d up to "waste" so much time at the range moving and scanning but I know it's likely I will be involved in another shooting before I retire at the end of my career.
That being said, I've always been curious if military guys involved in lots of small arms fire without ear protection actually suffer hearing loss or not. With all those M-4's being fired I would have to think hearing loss would be substantial.
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RecoilRob
Member
Great subject!
I emptied a riot gun once without ears back in the '70s and my ears rang for a day. Protection from then on...until the 10mm discharge in the small room. Didn't hear the shot...only WHEEEEEEEEEE....and the disorienting effects from the concussion.
Now a days, I carry a 9mm KT P-11 with 147 Golden Sabers loaded over 3.8grns of WW231. I haven't shot them without ear protection, but I HAVE shot them...indoors...with other comparable defensive loads to see how abusive they are.
Comparatively speaking, they are just a little POP....most other loads (especially +P's) are a BLAMMMMM!!! Big muzzle flash and concussion effects from the short 3" barrel would make shooting them effectively difficult indoors and un-protected.
I most definately agree and recommend using a standard pressure load on your HD weapon to minimise the hearing damage and disorientation from potentially shooting it indoors.
I emptied a riot gun once without ears back in the '70s and my ears rang for a day. Protection from then on...until the 10mm discharge in the small room. Didn't hear the shot...only WHEEEEEEEEEE....and the disorienting effects from the concussion.
Now a days, I carry a 9mm KT P-11 with 147 Golden Sabers loaded over 3.8grns of WW231. I haven't shot them without ear protection, but I HAVE shot them...indoors...with other comparable defensive loads to see how abusive they are.
Comparatively speaking, they are just a little POP....most other loads (especially +P's) are a BLAMMMMM!!! Big muzzle flash and concussion effects from the short 3" barrel would make shooting them effectively difficult indoors and un-protected.
I most definately agree and recommend using a standard pressure load on your HD weapon to minimise the hearing damage and disorientation from potentially shooting it indoors.
A couple of things: 85 dB is the threshold for hearing damage. It isn't a matter of if, it is a matter of when. This is not a matter of opion, it is documented fact. Ask your neighborhood hearing aid guy.
A .22 rifle is just at 85dB. A pistol is louder, of course. Everyting else is significantly above that.
As to military: we use hearing protection at the range. In a fire fight, forget it. Yes we all have service connected hearing loss, from explosions, cannon fire, shooting, and drill sgts. Any level of hearing loss, including tinnitis is maxed out at 10% service conection and gets us a set of expensive hearing aids every 5 years. Don't wait till you are an old guy to get this claim started, If you were combat arms (Infantry, MP, engineer, or involved in loud noises (truck/hummer/track driver, helicopters, etc) file a claim just as soon as you get out.
Don't expose your kids to unprotected shooting noises, in the misguided attempt to "toughen" them or to "let them know what to expect". You are screwing up their hearing, and by definition abusing yoiur kids. You may not like hearing that, but too bad. It's the truth.
Emergency shooting, indoors, is just that: an emergency. Make your decision as you need to, and do it.
finally: hearing loss can be mitigated with a hearing aid. Tinnitus is PERMANENT.
I always wear both plugs and muffs at the range, or while shooting Pdogs, or ground quirrels, since the shooting is rather fast. Hunting I wear a superior set of hearing aids, that shut off instantly when the sound goes over 80dB, and is turned up to hear soft sounds, between shots (like when I am sitting in the tree stand.
My background includes 13 years active duty with a year in VN (68-69), and 25 years in the practice of emergency medicine.
A .22 rifle is just at 85dB. A pistol is louder, of course. Everyting else is significantly above that.
As to military: we use hearing protection at the range. In a fire fight, forget it. Yes we all have service connected hearing loss, from explosions, cannon fire, shooting, and drill sgts. Any level of hearing loss, including tinnitis is maxed out at 10% service conection and gets us a set of expensive hearing aids every 5 years. Don't wait till you are an old guy to get this claim started, If you were combat arms (Infantry, MP, engineer, or involved in loud noises (truck/hummer/track driver, helicopters, etc) file a claim just as soon as you get out.
Don't expose your kids to unprotected shooting noises, in the misguided attempt to "toughen" them or to "let them know what to expect". You are screwing up their hearing, and by definition abusing yoiur kids. You may not like hearing that, but too bad. It's the truth.
Emergency shooting, indoors, is just that: an emergency. Make your decision as you need to, and do it.
finally: hearing loss can be mitigated with a hearing aid. Tinnitus is PERMANENT.
I always wear both plugs and muffs at the range, or while shooting Pdogs, or ground quirrels, since the shooting is rather fast. Hunting I wear a superior set of hearing aids, that shut off instantly when the sound goes over 80dB, and is turned up to hear soft sounds, between shots (like when I am sitting in the tree stand.
My background includes 13 years active duty with a year in VN (68-69), and 25 years in the practice of emergency medicine.
HowardC
Member
QuickDraw: That's my euphamism for......
.... the $1550 per ear hearing aids I've been wearing for the last 4 yrs or so. And, those aren't even the expensive ones...!!! It finally got so I was missing conversation in meetings, running the tv at 80% max vol, (much to my wife's consternation), restaurants-forget hearing conversation there, missing pages at work, etc.
Hearing aids work some, they're not the end all solution for loss of hearing. I can hear people OK in good circumstances compared to when I didn't have them. Restaurants are still difficult. People with low voices are a perennial problem.
And, no, not really hurt, but they itch, are uncomfortable, feedback gets bad sometimes; and they are generally a PITA necessity.
.... the $1550 per ear hearing aids I've been wearing for the last 4 yrs or so. And, those aren't even the expensive ones...!!! It finally got so I was missing conversation in meetings, running the tv at 80% max vol, (much to my wife's consternation), restaurants-forget hearing conversation there, missing pages at work, etc.
Hearing aids work some, they're not the end all solution for loss of hearing. I can hear people OK in good circumstances compared to when I didn't have them. Restaurants are still difficult. People with low voices are a perennial problem.
And, no, not really hurt, but they itch, are uncomfortable, feedback gets bad sometimes; and they are generally a PITA necessity.
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