headspace/bump gauge

[westernrover]

I need more inserts for gauging shoulder bump on rifle cases, and the Sinclair have been out of stock for over a year now. I guess I need to switch brands.
SAC doesn't seem to make one for one of my cartridges that has a 25 degree shoulder and 6.5mm caliber

RCBS makes a nifty-looking micrometer deal, but it's cartridge-specific. I could get one for my 223 Rem., but it's a bit pricey and they don't make any for any of my other cases.

Should I just get the Hornady set? Is there a better option?

 

[TEXASJD]

https://www.whiddengunworks.com/gauges/

I use these

 

[Kaldor]

I need more inserts for gauging shoulder bump on rifle cases, and the Sinclair have been out of stock for over a year now. I guess I need to switch brands.
SAC doesn't seem to make one for one of my cartridges that has a 25 degree shoulder and 6.5mm caliber

RCBS makes a nifty-looking micrometer deal, but it's cartridge-specific. I could get one for my 223 Rem., but it's a bit pricey and they don't make any for any of my other cases.

Should I just get the Hornady set? Is there a better option?

The Hornady set will work just fine. Ive seen no real reason why I should buy something else as the real limit is how its used, the user and the caliper you are using.

 

[Varminterror]

All you need is a reference device. Have a socket set?

The Hornady tool works well enough for the job to be done.

Bolt Close method works just as well.

 

[Anchorite]

For years we did the bolt close method until products came on line for retail sale. Its like cheating now.

As mentioned, the Hornady unit works just as good as the other tool.

 

[Walkalong]

All you need is a reference device

Yep, I have made a couple myself in the little hobby lathe

I can’t remember right now, but there is a company who makes simple ones cheap

Edit: came to me….

Case Gauges - CTS Engineering

Case headspace gauges

www.ctstrimmer.com

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

For years we did the bolt close method until products came on line for retail sale. Its like cheating now.

That was always fun with the Enfields (CoC). Then I got a 788 and it got interesting. The old ways are why we have new ways; but, yes I agree that the Hornady gauge system is nice. Especially since you don’t have to disassemble the bolt to use it.

 

[Varminterror]

For years we did the bolt close method until products came on line for retail sale. Its like cheating now.

For years since products have come online for retail sale, we've done silly things like take averages of multiple measurements.

Somehow we've convinced ourselves that if we hit our head on a door as we walk through it, then we measure our height 5 times and get 5 different measurements, if we adjust the door to the average of the measurements, that would mean we would not hit our head... But obviously, it just doesn't work that way.

 

[Bartojc]

I have and use the Hornady set as well. As mentioned any reference device will work..... take a before and after measurement and compare is all you are doing.

-Jeff

 

[westernrover]

I use the bolt-close method to figure out how many thou to bump. It's been more than 1 or 2 if I wanted the bolt to drop on all the brass. I wish all my fired brass was the same or within 1 thou, but that is just wishful thinking. I understand I want to bump enough that all cases fit. So I don't use the average, but the extreme.

 

[Anchorite]

For years since products have come online for retail sale, we've done silly things like take averages of multiple measurements.

Somehow we've convinced ourselves that if we hit our head on a door as we walk through it, then we measure our height 5 times and get 5 different measurements, if we adjust the door to the average of the measurements, that would mean we would not hit our head... But obviously, it just doesn't work that way.

You know the old adage…”measure twice, cut once.” Umm, ya. No one thought to as a reloader who was serious about his hobby that. He would have said, “measure a dozen times, before chambering…”

 

[AJC1]

I use the bolt-close method to figure out how many thou to bump. It's been more than 1 or 2 if I wanted the bolt to drop on all the brass. I wish all my fired brass was the same or within 1 thou, but that is just wishful thinking. I understand I want to bump enough that all cases fit. So I don't use the average, but the extreme.

You describe the reason some people are so finaticle about annealing. It's also the same reason precision shooters want brass from the same lot. I get much more uniform sizing on my lapua 6br cases than my range pickups.

 

[westernrover]

I anneal and all my brass is from the same Starline lot. It's still not always consistent to the thou. It's close enough for the results I want on target, and since I only measure it with a Brown & Sharpe caliper and not a micrometer, I can't say exactly how imperfect it is. I just know if I bump one case an indicated thou, it doesn't mean the next case bumped in the same die will let the bolt handle drop without resistance.

 

[Walkalong]

It's also the same reason precision shooters want brass from the same lot. I get much more uniform sizing on my lapua 6br cases than my range pickups.

Of course.

 

[Walkalong]

It's still not always consistent to the thou

Neither is my Lapua, if you are talking about shoulder position, it will vary .001.
We would be asking too much for it all to be to the same exact thousandth of an inch.

Using my Whidden gauge, my fired 6 Dasher brass (Some fire formed Lapua 6 BR &
some Alpha 6 Dasher), tends to be +.001 or +.002, and my sized -.001 to -.002. YMMV.

 

[AJC1]

I anneal and all my brass is from the same Starline lot. It's still not always consistent to the thou. It's close enough for the results I want on target, and since I only measure it with a Brown & Sharpe caliper and not a micrometer, I can't say exactly how imperfect it is. I just know if I bump one case an indicated thou, it doesn't mean the next case bumped in the same die will let the bolt handle drop without resistance.

A thow of total spread isn't enough to loose sleep over. If your bumping .002 you shouldn't even notice. If you are noticing your guess at actual chamber size is off. I bump .001 on 6br and don't ever have an issue. I see unmeasurable deviation in the needle position on my caliper but they fit and ship. I recall the bolt starts to cam any time the needle is north of .060 using my comparator. I set the die to give me .059 and if it's less than .060 good enough. Based on our discussions on proper use of the Hornady comparator those numbers are the only ones that matter.

 

[AJC1]

Neither is my Lapua, if you are talking about shoulder position, it will vary .001.
We would be asking too much for it all to be to the same exact thousandth of an inch.

Using my Whidden gauge, my fired 6 Dasher brass (Some fire formed Lapua 6 BR &
some Alpha 6 Dasher), tends to be +.001 or +.002, and my sized -.001 to -.002. YMMV.
View attachment 1187965

You typed to fast

 

[Anchorite]

I anneal and all my brass is from the same Starline lot. It's still not always consistent to the thou. It's close enough for the results I want on target, and since I only measure it with a Brown & Sharpe caliper and not a micrometer, I can't say exactly how imperfect it is. I just know if I bump one case an indicated thou, it doesn't mean the next case bumped in the same die will let the bolt handle drop without resistance.

What’s your annealing set up?

 

[westernrover]

I anneal the necks with a Bernz-O-Matic propane torch. I do it by hand and by time determined by a "red glow" in low-light, typically somewhere between 7 and 12 seconds depending on the cartridge. I have done it after every firing so far, but if my volume increases now that I reload 223, I might not bother for that one.

I'll acknowledge that this might not be "annealing" in some senses of the term. Some people might call it stress relieving or whatever. I'll also acknowledge it's not as precise or consistent as machine torch methods or AMP induction methods. What I do believe is that it reduces the inconsistency between once-fired and resized brass and 12-times fired and resized brass. I am only guessing, since I have no way of knowing, that the torch affects the neck tension characteristics more than it affects the shoulder. Really, I haven't seen much solid evidence that it makes any difference at all. I do know that annealing was adopted in cartridge brass manufacturing to prevent stress corrosion cracking (season cracking) and for reloaders it mostly looks like alchemy but has established itself as popular none-the-less.

 

[JFrank]

Why do we even need a bump gage ? We have a chamber, couldn’t a fella just adjust the die so rounds chamber freely and if you get a case that needs a tad more adjust the die a tad more ( sneak up on the setting) and leave it there ?

Maybe we just like to assign a number to things..

 

[Varminterror]

Why do we even need a bump gage ? We have a chamber

Bingo, Brother Jim!

I haven’t used a comparator to set my dies in a long, long time. Bolt close method, shorten my die in the press by 2thou (using depth spindle on calipers) after I find kiss length, and the die is set. Done.

 

[westernrover]

How do you quantify new brass then? You know new brass won't resist bolt close, but where is it at?

 

[JFrank]

How do you quantify new brass then? You know new brass won't resist bolt close, but where is it at?

I dont have to quantify new brass

 

[JFrank]

One way we use to form cases to a chamber is to load one of two with a modest charge and stuff tissue in the neck rather than a bullet and fire it in the back yard or garage, repeat that a couple times and when you start feeling bolt resistance you can start setting your die

 

[Varminterror]

How do you quantify new brass then? You know new brass won't resist bolt close, but where is it at?

Bolt close method. Aka, use the rifle chamber to tell me what actually fits.

Fireforming is one method, false shoulder is another. Personally, I use shimtape - if Virgin brass closes, I add layers of tape progressively until it doesn’t. If I get more than 5 thou at my desired clearance resistance, I’d pull up a false shoulder.

What are you actually doing with the data when you “quantify” your virgin brass? If it’s too small, I’m guessing you just know it’s too small, right? What are you actually doing about it?