Need some help here. I just recieved some 425 grain pile driver JRs. from beartooth bullets and I was really expecting some loading data from them. Well I didn't get squat, even though they ask what kind of gun you are using them for when you place your order. Anyways, can anyone reference some loading data for these bullets that are suitable for use in a marlin guide gun. I think I'm going to stick with the same bullet and just vary the powder charge a little for plinking and serious stuff. Thanks in advance.
Heavy and hot for the 45-70
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dc.fireman
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Powder manufacturers website have anything? I've visited several powder sites, especially when I can't seem to find my same bullet+primer+powder combo in my load books.
H322, Rem brass, CCI BR2 primer, 50 grains is the ABSOLUTE max.
Personally, I'd stop at about 48 or 49 grains.
Start at 45 and work up....stopping at 1,800-1,850 fps, the 45-70 won't show flat primers, stuck cases or any of the "traditional" signs of high pressure (not enough pressure, it takes upwards of 55,000 psi to show these signs)....you have to use the velocity compared to a listed load in a manual...the 1895 will blow to bits before you see even a flattened primer.
Personally, I'd stop at about 48 or 49 grains.
Start at 45 and work up....stopping at 1,800-1,850 fps, the 45-70 won't show flat primers, stuck cases or any of the "traditional" signs of high pressure (not enough pressure, it takes upwards of 55,000 psi to show these signs)....you have to use the velocity compared to a listed load in a manual...the 1895 will blow to bits before you see even a flattened primer.
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And...about the powder manufacturers load data.
Pay close attention to the brass they use...there is a big difference between case capacities.
Hodgden used Winchester brass for their online data...for Remington brass, reduce the MAX charge by 4 grains. For Starline brass, reduce by 3 grains.
When you're running that close to the limit....3-4 grains is ALOT.
Pay close attention to the brass they use...there is a big difference between case capacities.
Hodgden used Winchester brass for their online data...for Remington brass, reduce the MAX charge by 4 grains. For Starline brass, reduce by 3 grains.
When you're running that close to the limit....3-4 grains is ALOT.
Thanks Ridgrunner, that's what I'm looking for. A starting point and a stop point for a good stout load for the guide gun with these particular bullets. Not looking to blow a gun up just shoot through both sides of a moose or brown bear. ( a pretty tall order) If you've ever really seen them.
Moose and big bear aren't really a workout for the 45-70 with heavy bullets...those 425 PD Jr.'s would (most of the time) go through either one (from end to end) even if the velocity was only 1,600 fps.
In the "traditional" 45-70's...those 500 grain bullets at 1,300 fps had no trouble at all plowing all the way through 2,000 lb. buffalo.
In the "traditional" 45-70's...those 500 grain bullets at 1,300 fps had no trouble at all plowing all the way through 2,000 lb. buffalo.
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Roger that Ridgerunner, when you are looking at a brown bear or a big moose lying on it's side as I have you are talking almost an honest 3 feet of muscle and bone. I plan to load up to the point where accuracy suffers and stop there. I've seen a buch of water jug tests but they're not quite the same.
I've seen moose (in Canada...crossing the road), grizzlies (in Cherokee, NC...a zoo of sorts), and all kinds of buffalo...
All of the above are big critters...but you honestly don't need to push the 45-70 hard to kill them with it.
I'd work me up an 1,800 fps load and call it good if I was shooting 425's...
Currently (until I get the rest of my casting equipment), I'm using the Beartooth 405 LFN/GC at 1,900 fps...I'd be quite comfy hunting any of those critters with my load.
I like the 425's though...I have learned that it is a better balance for the 45-70, the 420-425 grain bullets are the "sweet spot". A good balance of speed, ballistic coefficient, sectional density, and weight...
All of the above are big critters...but you honestly don't need to push the 45-70 hard to kill them with it.
I'd work me up an 1,800 fps load and call it good if I was shooting 425's...
Currently (until I get the rest of my casting equipment), I'm using the Beartooth 405 LFN/GC at 1,900 fps...I'd be quite comfy hunting any of those critters with my load.
I like the 425's though...I have learned that it is a better balance for the 45-70, the 420-425 grain bullets are the "sweet spot". A good balance of speed, ballistic coefficient, sectional density, and weight...
ReloaderFred
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My Canadian moose fell to a 405 grain Remington JSP bullet from my 1895 Marlin and it punched through both sides of him. He went about 10' and dropped dead. Mine were loaded to 1,800 fps and the guide said he had never heard a bullet hit a moose with that much "thump".
Hope this helps.
Fred
Hope this helps.
Fred
ArchAngelCD
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Ridge is correct, it doesn't take a lot of velocity to make the 45-70 do a good job. It's like the .45 Colt pushing a 255gr bullet. It was designed to push that bullet ~900 fps and that was more than enough to kill a horse right out from under it's rider. A 45-70 pushing a bullet almost twice the weight at twice the velocity is mighty powerful medicine for anything that ails you... (your shoulder will thank you too)
For a smokeless load,I've used 405-410 wheel weight [lyman mold] flat nose slugs and 28 gr 4759 for 1300 or there abouts.It goes thru anything I've killed [deer,bear]inside 100yds;and I've never found a slug.
I'm using 48.5 gr. H322 with the 425 gr. "Beartooth" bullet for 1850 fps from a (Browning) '86 Winchester.
Handful from the bench with original style stock (lot of drop) and steel cap.
Handful from the bench with original style stock (lot of drop) and steel cap.
The load data I got from Beartooth Bullets is:
IMR 4198
40 grains minimum
44 1/2 grains maximum
Not primer specific
I personally use 44 1/2 grains of the IMR 4198 (simply because it grouped the best) with a CCI 200 primer and starline cases.
That's the load that goes with me in the woods on hiking, fishing, camping, and hunting trips. It's pretty comforting to know that there's alotta screaming lead going at something ugly if I need it also.
IMR 4198
40 grains minimum
44 1/2 grains maximum
Not primer specific
I personally use 44 1/2 grains of the IMR 4198 (simply because it grouped the best) with a CCI 200 primer and starline cases.
That's the load that goes with me in the woods on hiking, fishing, camping, and hunting trips. It's pretty comforting to know that there's alotta screaming lead going at something ugly if I need it also.
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