Heirloom Christmas Rifle

[Packman]

My Dad's side of the family has lived in Kentucky since prior to the 1700's, with some pretty extensive genealogy records to boot. We haven't had a lot of contact with them in recent years, but this year my parents went up to visit them in the fall. On the way, Dad picked up a couple of the really old family guns and brought them back down here. I just received one of them as a Christmas present, since I'm the only BP shooter in the family and I'm a pretty big history buff.

This rifle is in pretty rough shape. From the looks of it, I'd say it's about a 45 or 50 caliber, with a rifled bore. Percussion lock with doubleset triggers. It looks home made, probably pieced together from a variety of other guns. The hammer won't lock back, the barrel has been wired onto the stock, and the triggers are mostly non-functional. The rear trigger doesn't really move, and the front is pretty sticky. The ferrules under the barrel for the ramrod have been snapped off and the ramrod is a little bent. The hammer has chewed up the nipple pretty badly, to the point it's chipped the top off. It looks like the hammer is hitting off-center, so that just the edge is hitting the nipple. The nipple itself is an odd cylindrical design I've never seen before. It leads me to wonder if the barrel was originally off a flintlock that was converted to a percussion lock. There's a big hole and a couple of nasty chips in the stock, and the buttplate is a little loose. There's some screws missing on top of the barrel, I think they would have held the stock on to the barrel.

All told, based on verbal history, this gun was my great-great grandfather's. It is at least 150 years old, and we know for a fact that it hasn't been fired since my dad was born, which makes it unfired in 60 years. Based on my Grandad's recollection, it is probably unfired in the last 100 years. Even though it's in rough shape, I'm really glad to have a piece of family history that dates back so far. I'd love to restore it back to shooting condition, but it's far enough gone that it's a little beyond my current skill level. Maybe someday, but for right now I think it's just going to be a coveted family treasure. A lot of the "family" guns have disappeared over the years, so I'm really tickled and honored that I can be the guardian of a piece of the family history so old.

 

[4v50 Gary]

It looks restorable. I bet the sear is not catching.

 

[Packman]

I'm trying to upload more photos for y'all, but the website isn't cooperating right now.

 

[Packman]

Aha!

 

[4v50 Gary]

BTW, former Master Gunsmith Wallace Gusler (who founded the gunsmith shop at Colonial Williamsburg) will be teaching a three day restoration class this year. Contact the NMLRA for more information. I want to attend that class (as well as the brass casting class)

 

[whughett]

Did you check to see if it was charged with powder and ball? Many of the old pieces are.

 

[Packman]

Whughett, i did check that. It wouldn't have surprised me at all. But, it isn't loaded. I measured the ramrod depth in the barrel, and it's hitting all the way down to the flash hole, so I'm pretty confident it's empty.

 

[StrawHat]

I see you are in Florida, I do not know of any BP restorers down there but the next time you come North, consider a visit to the Log Cabin Shop in Lodi, Ohio. They still are the best for restoration work.

Another idea for your consideration would be to build a new rifle that copies the old one. Parts are available from a variety of sutlers and it would be a usable piece to carry on the family traditions.

 

[Chawbaccer]

Leave it just like that for future generations. If you want a shooter, go buy one for shooting. That one looks like a Bean rifle, the hole in the stock was for grease for patches.

 

[DoubleDeuce 1]

Very cool rifle, and great history! I held one last spring that had a lot of similar features. I forget who the maker was, but it sure was great.

 

[Crawdad1]

With that drum installed its usually a give away, not always, but more times than not, that the rifle was an origianl flintlock then converted to a percussion. The old touch hole was reamed out and threaded for the drum.
Can you tell if it was a full stocked rifle and any makers marks? Did you or are you going to post your prize on this forum?

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=pde5k9a31klfejt19mht5gu3t4&board=3.0




They would be very interested.

 

[Pancho]

More importantly is writing down the known family history of the gun and interviewing the oldest of your family to gain as much information about it for future generations. A lot of facts are retrievable but they are dry by comparison to the vague memories of your older relatives. With every funeral there is lost family history if you don't ask.

 

[Packman]

Crawdad, I have not posted it there. I hadn't heard of that forum until you mentioned it. I browsed through it quickly, looks like a decent website. I'll take a closer look when I get home and probably post it over there too.

Pancho, this is actually the 3rd of the old family guns I've been given, and by far the oldest. I have written as much of the recounted history as I've been able to find. I still have a few family members who will have stories of this one that I haven't gotten to talk to yet, but as soon as I get a chance I'll record their versions as well. We have a pretty extensive written history of that side of the family, and I enjoy adding my chapters to it when I can.

 

[StrawHat]

Crawdad1,

I agree about the drum and nipple being an expedient to conversion but the lockplate doesn't show any of the signs of conversion, at least not that I can see. Maybe an old barrel and new wood etc.

 

[Crawdad1]

Strawhat, I know exactly what you mean and I agree. After I posted I enlarged the pictures Packman posted and took a better look at that lock. It doesn’t appear that the lock plate has been modified from flint to percussion.

 

[Crawdad1]

No, I take that back, that appears to be a straight up percussion lock.

 

[StrawHat]

It is still an interesting riifle.

 

[Packman]

Hmm. Looks like Dixie Gun Works has that same style nipple/drum set up like what's on the rifle.

Off the top of my head, the lock plate needs to come off, along with the trigger mechanism, so I can see what's going on inside of there that stopping the triggers from working right. The nipple needs to be replaced, and it needs a good solid cleaning. I'd like to get the stock attached to the barrel a little better, it's basically safety-wired on right now. The stock has slots cut through it that would have gone onto a different barrel from the looks of it, although without pulling the stock it's hard to tell for sure. The wood-metal fit isn't very good, but the wood looks to have been cut fairly precisely on the forend, leading me think this was a recycled stock.

I'm thinking I may carefully pull it apart. Depending what the lock/sear looks like, I may be able to bring this back to shooting condition without changing the character of the gun, which would make me unspeakable happy.

Just to be clear about the future of this gun: It's been in the family for 150ish years. It was handed down to me, and will be handed down to my grandkids. If I ever find out it was sold or otherwise left the family, I'm liable to strangle the offender. I don't care a whit about the monetary value of the gun, just the character and history.

 

[Packman]

Also, I found a very faded, worn out marking on the side of the lock plate. I can't really tell what exactly it was, but it looks like some kind of an emblem.

 

[goon]

The whole lock could have been swapped over from flintlock to percussion. It looks like it's standing a little proud at the rear and not fitted quite right at the front. Some of that could also be from warping with age though.

Still, it is a very cool find. It's great to keep history like that alive. If you find that it's not restorable or you just don't want to go that path, maybe you could build something similar to what it would have looked like "new" with currently available parts.

 

[Chawbaccer]

I repeat. "Leave it be". Why do you want it to be a shooter? As it is with the wire wrapping and miss fit lock and so forth, is the History Of That Gun! Let your future generations see just how this gun is as your great grandpa put it away.

 

[Noz]

I disagree. Take a couple of hundred pictures for the history book than make a good effort to get her shooting again.

 

[Packman]

Chawbaccer, if you suddenly inherited your grandad's original 1908 Model T Ford and it didn't run, would you leave it sitting in the barn in exactly the same condition you found it in? Or would you be okay with using parts as true to the original as possible, such that you don't change the character of the machine, and bring it back to life?

Guns are meant to shoot. It's their purpose, their reason to be. If it looks like it would require a brand new lock, stock, etc to bring the barrel back to life, then I won't do it. If on the other hand, I can get a new nipple, age the metal to match, pull the lock and clean up the sear, rewire the stock onto the barrel with aged wire... Well in that case, I've breathed new life into the gun, instead of just minimizing the decay for future generations. I haven't changed the character of the gun, only a couple of broken parts. I never had the chance to meet my great-great grandad, but I did have the privilege to know my great-grandad, and my grandad is still alive and kicking. I think it's well within the family tradition to bring the gun back to life.

As I said though, if a restoration to shooting condition would require a change in the essence of the gun, then it'll be retired from duty. I already have one of the family guns that I have given an honorable retirement. The caliber is no longer available readily, it's not in great shape, has parts broken and missing and has earned the retirement. That one will eventually grace the wall, but it'll probably never be fired again. If I can easily prevent that fate for another one, I'd like to.

Guns that are cared for are more likely to stay in the family. This one was in the back of the closet for 2 generations before me. It'd be a shame to put it back for 2 more.

 

[Packman]

Been doing some PMing with Strawhat about this gun. As it stands right now, I think I'm going to clean up the original, oil it up to stop any further degradation, and try my hand at building a lookalike shooter. From initial research there will be some variation, but I think I might be able to get something that's pretty near the original, has a similar character, but is a new gun that I can add to the family collection.

It's likely to be a long-term project, but when I get going, I'll start a thread on it. In the meantime, I ordered a building book Strawhat suggested, so I'm starting the research phase now.

 

[BHP FAN]

good on ya. back when I was a youngster the feed truck driver who used to come out to our ranch once a week had an old Colt revolver, with a busted hammer spring, and he asked my dad to ''fix'' it. the next time the driver came out my dad proudly handed him back his Colt, with not only the broken spring replaced, but all the patina buffed off, the whole thing totally reblued [with cold blue] and the cracked old hard rubber grips replaced with ones my dad had made from walnut. that was the closest I have ever seen to a grown man cry, and they wouldn't have been tears of joy, either.