Hello! I am new here ! I have question about a Mauser ! Any Mauser enthusiast here?

[Odessit86]

Hi here ! i am new here .. i now nothing about hunting rifles
I start looking for a hunting rifle at Mausers .... i being read o lot about Mauser M12 .and many folks say that its a precise rifle but you have to think when it comes to replace a barrel ! Mauser wont supply a barrel !
I have a question What is the life span of a Mauser barrel ? i mean i know Mauser WW2 98k they still shoot good... but its being over 70 years old..Original barrel... Why need to replace barrel????
I herd Mauser barrel makes other company ! Does modern rifles has less quality of barrel? Soft metal? Why people talking of replacing barrel?
Perhaps somebody can help me? Thank you !

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

Hi here ! i am new here .. i now nothing about hunting rifles
I start looking for a hunting rifle at Mausers .... i being read o lot about Mauser M12 .and many folks say that its a precise rifle but you have to think when it comes to replace a barrel ! Mauser wont supply a barrel !
I have a question What is the life span of a Mauser barrel ? i mean i know Mauser WW2 98k they still shoot good... but its being over 70 years old..Original barrel... Why need to replace barrel????
I herd Mauser barrel makes other company ! Does modern rifles has less quality of barrel? Soft metal? Why people talking of replacing barrel?
Perhaps somebody can help me? Thank you !

It sounds like you may be a little new to this topic. I'll try to address this in a fairly basic manner -- forgive me if it seems over simple.

The life span of a modern rifle barrel like the M12 will depend heavily on which cartridge it is chambered in, how it is loaded and how rapidly it is shot. Usually a barrel is considered 'shot out' when the area just in front of the chamber becomes eroded and accuracy is seriously reduced. Unless you use a very high-pressure cartridge like 22-250 and fire long strings without allowing the barrel to cool, you probably won't wear out a new hunting rifle barrel in your lifetime. It can take tens of thousands of rounds to destroy rifle accuracy, depending on variables such as the specific cartridge, the type of bullet and propellents used, and rates and volume of fire.

If the unlikely does happen and you manage to destroy a rifle barrel just by shooting it, you can generally find a gunsmith who can rebarrel almost any type of rifle action. No need to worry over whether the Mauser factory can provide a new barrel.

As for Mauser rifles 70+ years old still shooting well, that depends on your standards. A typical, factory-new K98k service rifle used by the Wehrmacht was only expected to shoot about one-fourth as accurately as a modern sporting rifle today. If you are interested in Mauser design and construction through the years, try reading Jerry Kuhnhausen's Mauser Shop manual:

https://www.amazon.com/Mauser-Bolt-Action-Manual-Through/dp/999396400X


Modern rifles are almost universally more accurate, and generally made from better, longer-lasting materials. If you really like the contemporary Mauser M12, by all means get one and don't fret too much over barrel longevity.

 

[Mosin Bubba]

As a very rough estimate, I'd say most high-caliber rifle barrels are good for 5,000 rounds before accuracy begins to dip, and they can probably go longer than that before they become shot out or unusable.

I don't know about you, but after 5,000 rounds of 30-06 type hunting calibers at $1+ a pop, my shoulder and wallet would give out before my barrel did.

The fretting over barrel changes is more of a long range target shooter thing, since those guys do shoot thousands of rounds, and they might be looking to replace their barrel as soon as their groups open up even half an inch. But for a hunter, one barrel should get you through a couple generations of shooting easily.

 

[Odessit86]

Well I would choose 30-06 or 8mm Mauser ..
But I lean to 8mm more ...
I want to use for deer hunting purpose .. in northern states ..
Reason for 8mm ..i just like this caliber it's more related to history.. .. even I am Russian and it's a Germans "thing" cause of WW2 still like this cartridge ...
But 30-06 more widely available
Thanks guys
And btw so modern Mauser M12 more accurate then Mauser 98k ? Is this correct ? I understand that technology step ahead...but still wonder ?

 

[boom boom]

Well I would choose 30-06 or 8mm Mauser ..
But I lean to 8mm more ...
I want to use for deer hunting purpose .. in northern states ..
Reason for 8mm ..i just like this caliber it's more related to history.. .. even I am Russian and it's a Germans "thing" cause of WW2 still like this cartridge ...
But 30-06 more widely available
Thanks guys
And btw so modern Mauser M12 more accurate then Mauser 98k ? Is this correct ? I understand that technology step ahead...but still wonder ?

The M12 is a modern sporting rifle designed for use for fun and recreation. The k98 is a battle rifle designed to function in all sorts of muck, be easy to maintain in the field, and handle poor ammunition. A k98 can be accurized but by then you will spend a pile of money when you would probably get better accuracy from the M12 at a lot less price unless you plan on recreating trench conditions in WWI or WWII in your usage.

One of the major differences is manufacturing tolerances can be controlled better and we have learned a few things that increase accuracy on barrels, stocks, receiver, bolt, barrels, magazines, and triggers.

There are some good buys on used sporterized military Mausers as they are not so much in demand anymore if that is what you have to have. Quality and accuracy on these varies depending on the skill of the builder and the material that they had to work with.

Converting a military rifle is basically a way to spend a lot of money to end up with something less valuable than what you started with. Military condition rifles are bringing significant money from collectors and it is best money and headache wise to sell such a rifle to one and use it to buy a modern sporting rifle.

 

[Mosin Bubba]

Well I would choose 30-06 or 8mm Mauser ..
But I lean to 8mm more ...
I want to use for deer hunting purpose .. in northern states ..
Reason for 8mm ..i just like this caliber it's more related to history.. .. even I am Russian and it's a Germans "thing" cause of WW2 still like this cartridge ...
But 30-06 more widely available
Thanks guys
And btw so modern Mauser M12 more accurate then Mauser 98k ? Is this correct ? I understand that technology step ahead...but still wonder ?

It's hard to say for sure that for sure that the new Mauser is more accurate than the surplus 98s, as the latter come in all kinds of different conditions. Some I've shot have been surprisingly accurate, some have a barrel that looks like a sewer pipe and can't hit the broad side of a barn. But if you put a 2019 Mauser up against 10 surplus Mausers, I would bet on the 2019 rifle outshooting at least 9 of them, and very likely all 10.

Also, one thing to note with 8mm is that most of the ammo sold in America is very weakly loaded. The Core-Lokt and Federal loads for it are 170 grains at 2300 FPS, while the German WW2 load was a 196 grain bullet at 2500 FPS and it didn't strain the rifles in any way. The down-loaded stuff will work for deer, but the full power ammo will shoot flatter and hit harder.

If you want the hot stuff, double-check the ammo boxes to find manufacturers that load it to high velocity (it should be similar to a 30-06 of the same weight), or look for some European manufacturers who tend to load it hotter. Privi Partizan is one of them IIRC.

 

[boom boom]

BTW, you might find this rifleshooter magazine review useful
https://www.rifleshootermag.com/editorial/mauser-m12-review/83817

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

Great discussion here!

One more thing to add about barrel life: you can destroy barrel accuracy faster through neglect, abuse and overzealous cleaning than by shooting. Perhaps someone else will recommend their preferred hunting rifle cleaning regimen.

If anyone is curious about standards of accuracy in military smallarms of the WWII era, check out the last part of this rather long video (actually the whole video is pretty good, but be aware that it's over an hour of two guys just talking and drinking fine whiskey. . .) Some interesting original sources are provided for rifle accuracy expectations back in the heyday of Mauser K98k and No.4 Enfield:

 

[CapnMac]

Wartime Kar98k were allowed to be 4MOA and accepted for service. Which is plenty good enough to hit a 20cm target at 300m in a war.
Modern hunting rifles in the US are expected to be around 1-1.5MOA out of the box, and will be flamed in videos and on-line fora for daring to be any worse. (Despite the fact that most hunters just need to get their shots in about 15cm at around 150m; anything better is, as the expression goes "just gravy.")

We use gliding metal on projectiles to help reduce the wear on steel barrels. Modern materials are incredibly uniform, and have well known engineering constants. Modern hunting rifles are unlikely to wear out in any one person's lifetime. There are some rifles out there a century old and still going out every hunting season.

NRA High Power rifle shooters will go though hundreds of rounds in a year. About the only shooters who seem to wear out barrels are the F-Class folks. But, they are also right out at the edges, too--powerful cartridges, throat-burning loads, super-tight tolerances. And, it still takes a few thousand rounds.

 

[mustanger98]

Also, one thing to note with 8mm is that most of the ammo sold in America is very weakly loaded. The Core-Lokt and Federal loads for it are 170 grains at 2300 FPS, while the German WW2 load was a 196 grain bullet at 2500 FPS and it didn't strain the rifles in any way. The down-loaded stuff will work for deer, but the full power ammo will shoot flatter and hit harder.

If you want the hot stuff, double-check the ammo boxes to find manufacturers that load it to high velocity (it should be similar to a 30-06 of the same weight), or look for some European manufacturers who tend to load it hotter. Privi Partizan is one of them IIRC.

Sellier&Bellot, last I knew, offered a 196gr SPCE (soft point, cutting edge... the bullet has a shoulder) that ran about 2500fps... I once had the opportunity to sample a few rounds and was impressed. For a 170gr, I handloaded RN's (round nose jacketed soft points) to run 2500fps and liked those too. Seems like a long time ago.

Sure, you can get some hot loads... we used to get some surplus Turkish magnum crap that made the rifle dangerous at both ends... but why? Take it easy on your shoulder and you'll enjoy shooting a lot more.

I saw some customer reviews on Privi Partisan... 196gr SP... It got a lot of good reviews for accuracy and didn't seem to kick too hard, but also some complaints that said it was "underpowered". You'd have to try it in your rifle and see how it goes.

 

[mustanger98]

One more thing to add about barrel life: you can destroy barrel accuracy faster through neglect, abuse and overzealous cleaning than by shooting. Perhaps someone else will recommend their preferred hunting rifle cleaning regimen.

For military purposes, the Mauser cleaning kit usually includes a chamber brush which screws onto the steel cleaning rod (usually 10" or 12"). The bore was cleaned with a pull-through cord... if the Germans issued the same cord as the Yugoslavians, it had a split midway. You'd pull a patch both ways. Near as I can figure, the steel cleaning rod would never touch the muzzle.

For my purposes, for the bore, I use an aluminum cleaning rod which may or may not be coated. It's much milder than the steel in the barrel.

 

[Jim Watson]

Why do people talk about replacing barrels?
Because a lot of us shoot more than our ancestors could afford.

A target shooter said he considered a barrel worn out when his groups became 50% larger than new. Assuming a one MOA good quality hunting rifle, you can kill anything that walks, crawls or flies with a 1.5 MOA well used barrel. That used to be the Weatherby guarantee of accuracy. We can do better now.

Springfield Armory considered the service life of a .30-06 barrel to be 6000 rounds.
My long range friend says his .308s are good for 4500 from prone with sling, 2500 from F class bipod and really hot loads. Not because the barrels are worse but because his requirements for accuracy are greater.

 

[morcey2]

I saw some customer reviews on Privi Partisan... 196gr SP... It got a lot of good reviews for accuracy and didn't seem to kick too hard, but also some complaints that said it was "underpowered". You'd have to try it in your rifle and see how it goes.

The Prvi that is marked "8mm Mauser" is seriously underpowered. It's loaded to SAAMI specs same as Win/Fed/Rem loads. I don't remember exactly but I think it's only doing about 2100 fps. If you can find some marked "8x57 IS", that is loaded to CIP spec and does about 2500 fps with the same bullet. 8x57 is the reason I got into handloading specifically because of this issue.

Matt

 

[mustanger98]

Well I would choose 30-06 or 8mm Mauser ..
But I lean to 8mm more ...
I want to use for deer hunting purpose .. in northern states ..
Reason for 8mm ..i just like this caliber it's more related to history.. .. even I am Russian and it's a Germans "thing" cause of WW2 still like this cartridge ...
But 30-06 more widely available
Thanks guys
And btw so modern Mauser M12 more accurate then Mauser 98k ? Is this correct ? I understand that technology step ahead...but still wonder ?

If I understood correctly, the OP is in the Russian Federation, so finding CIP Spec 8x57 ammo shouldn't be a problem.

I understood he's somewhere up north. I was guessing Michigan or close.

 

[SwampWolf]

.. even I am Russian

Are you living in America? In any event, welcome to The High Road, Odessit86!

 

[Odessit86]

Are you living in America? In any event, welcome to The High Road, Odessit86!

Yep... Upstate New York but New York has their own law about 8mm .. many websites don't do delivery in NY state because of restrictions. Unbelievable.
Anyway Thank you all !

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

Yep... Upstate New York but New York has their own law about 8mm .. many websites don't do delivery in NY state because of restrictions. Unbelievable.
Anyway Thank you all !

Welcome to the American People's Republics, comrade! Same is true here in California (ever notice the California flag includes a red star?) -- discover handloading.

 

[Zoer]

I originally bought a mismatched 8x57 mauser because it and the surplus ammo was cheap. I really enjoyed shooting it so I bought a nice 8x57 mauser sporter and have had great results hunting deer, elk and black bears with it. It is a hand loaders cartridge , but better factory ammo is now available .