Help .45-70 Govt

[Afy]

Just ordered an Armi Sport Shaprs in .45-70.
Have no clue about the caliber. So what do I need?

1. Dies I know. Am thinking of the RCBS set, full size, seating and Trim. Do I need a belling die and crimp?
2. What kind of primers?
3. Assuming lead bullets, I think .457 400 grain and 500 grain ones should be fine. What about lube?
4. BP: FFG? Do I need over powder wads etc?
5. Smokeless I think VV 133, 120 et al should be fine.
6. How does one paper patch bullets? Is it worth it?

What else do I need? Thank you for the help.

 

[Remo-99]

1. The die set should have an expanding/belling die and the seater die should be able to apply crimp also.
2. Large rifle primers.
3. .458"-.459" if using lead bullets and they should be lubed.
4. There should be no need to use blackpowder in modern reproductions.
5. 45-70 works best with fast to medium burning rifle powders, but slow magnum pistol powders can be used.
6. They need not be paper patched if the correct diameter bullet is used.

 

[Afy]

The fun of the trap door is BP. IMHO. So I do plan on experimenting a bit.
How does one lube the bullets? Just dip them into the BP Wax?
Well have a couple of weeks before to gun comes in, so have a little time.

 

[snuffy]

Armi sports??

I had never heard of them, so I did a little searching. I still don't know if the rifle you're talking about is a trapdoor or falling block. But I DID find a long discussion that was on the cast boolits forum a couple of years back about armi sports rifles.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=8860

They don't have anything nice to say about them, or their quality. But that was 2 years ago, perhaps the quality has gotten better?

As for loading, the RCBS set should work well. I have the RCBS set, also a lee 4 die set that includes the rifle type collet final crimp die. The FCD is used to erase the belling necessary to allow seating of the lead bullets I make. More crimp that that is simply not needed. I don't load ANY black powder, so I can't help there.

My rifles are both H&R/NEF, the carbine is a calvary model trapdoor, the NEF is a buffalo hunter replica.

 

[Robert Palermo /Penn Bullets]

The rifles rate of twist is probably set for the the orginal 500 gr. Sharps design bullet (we offer that bullet) at 1 in 18.
The 405 (I offer that as well) is probably the lightest bullet that will shoot well with that twist and is good for about 150-200 yards for good accuracy.
At 200 yards and beyond the 500 is vastly superior.
The bullets come lubed with lubricant suitable for blackpowder or smokeless. no addtional wads are necessary. If choosing a smokeless load Accurate Arms 5744 will duplicate blackpowder ballistics without the need for a case filler and the powder is not position sensitive. 26 -28 grs with the 500 will get the job done.

 

[Remo-99]

If your right into the whole early days methods, thats cool.
Cause paper patching can add to that as well.
Normally its an under calibre mould with no lube grooves and sometimes a hollow at the base so the paper twist off can be pushed into that.
A template is made at the required dimensions for cutting the paper to correct size.
The wetted paper then wrapped on the bullet, twisted at the bottom over hang and pushed up into the bullet base, then let dry before loading.

Other methods are casting correct size lube bullets and pan lubing or lubsizing or even tumble lubing.

 

[snuffy]

The fun of the trap door is BP. IMHO. So I do plan on experimenting a bit.
How does one lube the bullets? Just dip them into the BP Wax?
Well have a couple of weeks before to gun comes in, so have a little time.

If you're buying cast bullets, they will come already lubed with some sort of petroleum grease. If you're going to load black powder, the lube should be compatible with black powder, NOT containing petroleum.

The fouling generated by black powder needs a lube that will keep the fouling soft. Petroleum lubes mix with black powder to form a tar like substance. It's darn hard to get out, and it coats the inside surface of the bore. As it builds up, it can damage bullets on their trip down the barrel.

Just dip them into the BP Wax?

Yes, IF they could be bought sized but UNLUBED. The best BP lube I know of that's commercially available is TC,(thompson center), bore butter. It's simply crisco, yellow food die, and wintergreen oil. They make several grades, the tube is fairly soft, the tub is much harder and works well for cartridge, BPCR.

 

[Afy]

Snuffy: I use a mix of Bees Wax, Crisco and Olive Oil for my cap and ball stuff. Guess will just dip them in that.

Robert: Would love some bullets. Do you ship to France?

The Pedersoli is definetely better. however 3x the price is stiff.

 

[Robert Palermo /Penn Bullets]

Robert: Would love some bullets. Do you ship to France?

No problem. I do international shipping.

 

[Afy]

Cool will be in touch.