help choosing AR-15 barrel - hammer forged or button rifled?

[socalbeachbum]

Can someone give a simple explanation as to what to look for in a precision grade barrel for an AR-15?

I see so many barrels described as 'Match' but what is the real scoop on picking up a good grade barrel for informal competition?

I purchased a Lothar Walther SS 16" medium heavy barrel, and it seems no more precise that the chrome lined 16" barrel my MP-15 came with. Very similar results from both using same optics, ammo, etc.

What I'd like to build is a MK12 replica, 18" barrel. Not sure if hammer forged or SS button rifled is inherently more accurate. I don't even know if these are the same, results-wise?

 

[Jackal]

You will honestly never notice a difference. Some CHF barrels shoot better than button rifled and some button rifled shoot better than CHF's. Its more to do with your skill, load used, optics and trigger.

 

[patriot53]

You will honestly never notice a difference. Some CHF barrels shoot better than button rifled and some button rifled shoot better than CHF's. Its more to do with your skill, load used, optics and trigger.

What is "buttoned rifled" ?
thanks...

 

[briansmithwins]

What is "buttoned rifled" ?

A carbide 'button' with the profile of the rifling engraved on the outside is pulled through the barrel blank, cutting all the rifling at one pass. It's a type of broaching.

BSW

 

[Bobson]

[Button rifling is:] A carbide 'button' with the profile of the rifling engraved on the outside is pulled through the barrel blank, cutting all the rifling at one pass.

So what does "hammer forged" mean?

I get a mental picture of a vertically ribbed shank with red-hot metal draped around it and beaten into form, but I'm guessing that's not how it works.

 

[MistWolf]

So what does "hammer forged" mean?

I get a mental picture of a vertically ribbed shank with red-hot metal draped around it and beaten into form, but I'm guessing that's not how it works.

Pretty close. The barrel material is cold hammer forged around a mandrel, which looks like what a casting of the bore and chamber would look like. Once the barrel is beaten into shape, the mandrel is removed and the exterior machined to it's final dimensions.

Accuracy has more to do with the quality of workmanship and tolerances held than manufacturing methods. The reason the best match grade barrels are made by cut rifling has more to do with economics of scale than anything else.

SoCalBeachBum, did you use the bolt that came with your Lothar-Walther barrel? I have one in a 20 inch length and it shoots good

 

[Bobson]

Ah, neat. Thanks for the clarification, MistWolf.

 

[rskent]

Very similar results from both using same optics, ammo, etc.

I think the place to start looking for accuracy is almost always with ammunition.
So the question is, what are you using for ammo?

 

[dprice3844444]

check green mountain barrels http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/ar-15-m16-m4-rifle-barrels/
hammer forged or button rifled?how crazy do you want to get on price?is this full auto?
either will serve you fine and probably be more accurate than most of us are capable of shooting.

next question,chrome lined or melonited?
http://ar15depot.com/barrels.htm
http://www.blackweaponsarmory.com/ar-15-barrels.html
http://www.ar15supplystore.com/ar-15-barrels/
http://www.midwayusa.com/find?usersearchquery=ar+15+barrel&itemsperpage=24&pageNumber=1 18 pages
http://www.cbcindllc.com/product/ar-15-10-5-300-blackout-barrel-18-white/
http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/ar-15-m16-m4-rifle-barrels/
http://www.faxonfirearms.com/c/2/ar-15-barrels-and-parts
http://www.scottstactical.com/index.php/ar-15-barrels.html
http://www.whiteoakarmament.com/xcart/home.php?cat=250&page=2
http://www.riflebarrels.com/products/ar.htm
http://ar-15.us/category/short-barrel-rifles/ sbr
http://criterionbarrels.com/barrels/ar-15

if you are going for long range accuracy, check white oak armory for your upper.
above is a copy n paste of sites i just put together for my files on barrels to make it easier in my old age and senility to find things.

 

[Slamfire]

I purchased a Lothar Walther SS 16" medium heavy barrel, and it seems no more precise that the chrome lined 16" barrel my MP-15 came with. Very similar results from both using same optics, ammo, etc.

Modern chrome lined barrels are better than they have ever been. One across the course friend of mine loved Colt HBar barrels, they were chrome lined at the time. He is a High Master with a service rifle, has the President's 100 patch . Over the front post, he did not see enough difference between those barrels and match barrels to justify the cost. If the barrel shot well , he shot it up. Maybe if he was shooting F Class with a scope, that would have changed things enough.

If you were to bolt the Walther barrel in a machine rest, and the chrome lined barrel in another, play with the loads, I am certain the Walther barrel would produce slightly better groups if you shot enough ammunition. Walther barrels are good. But, if you can't see a difference on paper, don't worry about it.

 

[Onmilo]

A hammer forged barrel bore and throat lead will last longer than those cut by button rifling or broach rifling.
Done correctly and with great precision, a broach rifled barrel will produce the finest accuracy of the three.
Button rifling is the least expensive way to produce a usable barrel. HTH

 

[socalbeachbum]

After more testing, the Lothar-Walther 16" provides me roughly 0.8 MOA with Hornady match ammo or Winchester match. This is with a $150 Weaver scope & not perfectly sandbagged. Could probably do 0.5 MOA if the crosshairs were finer and I had more that 12x.

My son's Stag Arms 24" heavy varmint on the same upper and lower, same ammo, same scope, same shooter and conditions is doing 1/4 MOA at 100 yds.

I'm doing about 1 MOA with the above using the S&W 16" M4 profile chrome lined barrel.

 

[MachIVshooter]

The reason the best match grade barrels are made by cut rifling has more to do with economics of scale than anything else.

That's part of it. But cut rifling also doesn't stress the steel like a button, and will keep tighter tolerances than hammer forging. Button rifled tubes must be stress relieved, and can have several tenths of diameter variation when finished. CHF can have similar variations. A well made cut rifled tube will hold within a tenth or two.

Socal-unless you're in the upper ecehlon of precision shooting, you'll likely never see the difference between the manufacturing methods. The bigger differences will come from the quality of manufacture, and even more from ammunition. I would, however, avoid chrome lined tubes if accuracy is your primary concern.

FWIW, I've personally found the button rifled stainless tubes to be most accurate in mid weight carbines.