Help diagnose a problem - Model 19

[Newton]

So me and a friend went desert shooting this week, and he was using his mint nickle 4 inch Smith Model 19.

After shooting some tame .38 loads, he pulled out a box of reloads from 1976. He told me that these were loaded on a SWAT reloading bench (forget which city's SWAT team) as combat loads for their then issued .357s, and yes they were over 30 years old.

The box said they were 158gr SJHPs at 1200 fps, and while they shot nicely, he was talking about them being even hotter, up around 700ft lbs which would be what, more like 1300fps.

Sure enough, the spent cases had to be ejected with a hard knock on the ejector rod, and the primers were completely flattened into the primer pockets on examination.

After about 20 rounds, the cylinder would only lock in place with a firm push, and the trigger pull suddenly jumped about 5 pounds.

The gun would still shoot, but we obviously stopped for the day and switched to other guns.

So what would break in a S&W when you hammer it with super hot loads?

 

[rcmodel]

Bent ejector rod from beating on it?

Loose ejector rod needs tightening?

Powder grains under the extractor star?

Cracked forcing cone?

Stretched the frame?

rc

 

[Sylvan-Forge]

Maybe rapping the ejector rod bent it and/or the yoke and is causing drag at the locking bolt, the yoke, the recoil plate. Misalignment could cause the hand to bind in the ratchet.

Or there is blowby gunking up the works.

Or the frame has stretched causing misalignment similiar to the bent rod/yoke above.


That the symptoms are now a heavier trigger and trouble closing the cylinder, I'd go with a good clean and lube and then checking alignments.

.

edit: rcmodel beat me to it!

.

 

[Rexster]

The first thing that comes to mind is gunk under the extractor. Pressure from closing the cylinder may have made it quite flat and really plastered down hard. Get a brush after it, and hope there is no damage, just fouling.

As for firing ANY more after seeing flattened primers, well, if you wrecked a classic old S&W sixgun, you got what YOU deserved, though I fell sorry for the sixgun. Harsh words, yes, but flattened primers are what we call a clue, to put it mildly. If you want to have eyes instead of empty sockets; and fingers instead of fings, stop immediately when you see such signs of over-pressure loads.

 

[CSA 357]

I realy hope you didnt mess up a fine old gun, but its no dought they were too hot, maybe as said above, loose ejecter rod, bent ejecter rod, crud under extracter, crud on forcing cone, let us know what you find, csa

 

[redneckrepairs]

After about 20 rounds, the cylinder would only lock in place with a firm push, and the trigger pull suddenly jumped about 5 pounds.

I will be kind and offer him $100 for the pistol .

Nahh bs aside its dirty and that is the only problem i am seeing here . He/you shot crap reloads and the old 19 got dirty , some under the star , some blown into the frame which both assist in making the trigger pull ( or force required to rotate the cylinder ) increase. give it a good bath , and quit shooting supposed swat reloads and it will be fine . On a side note , no police or .mil will shoot reloads , the liability far outweighs any gain that might and i stress might be had . Now swat team members who may be like a lot of cops and know more about pens or entry movements than they do firearms may well reload , this does not mean you want to shoot any of their reloads . Dont shoot " Buddy Bubba's " reloads . I dont give a rats ass how " good " he is , or how much you trust him . If he dont make ammo for a living dont shoot his stuff . If you did not personally reload it , then dont shoot it .

 

[WarHall]

You are the lucky one!

Model 19, 4" barrel, 15 yrs ago - Same problem only with factory ammo - Extractor rod 'unscrewed' itself. locked up with the hammer back. When I sat down at home to figure it out, and saw what the problem was, I took a leatherman tool and started screwing it back down, relieving the pressure on the hammer. Lost a finger that day...

 

[Newton]

Lost a finger that day...

How did that happen?

PS - thanks for the tips I'll pass them along, hopefully it is just dirt under the ejector star.

 

[elktrout]

I saw this same thing happen one time to a different .357 mag which had such a small gap between the forcing cone and cylinder that the heat from heavy mag loads caused enough metal expansion to bind the cylinder against the forcing cone. Model 19s used to have very small cylinder-forcing cone gaps. More than likely it is the crud build up problem already posted, but you might have had some metal expansion issues with super hot loads if fired rapidly in succession.

 

[Jim Watson]

He told me that these were loaded on a SWAT reloading bench as combat loads for their then issued .357s,

Serious BS.

Sure enough, the spent cases had to be ejected with a hard knock on the ejector rod, and the primers were completely flattened into the primer pockets on examination.

After about 20 rounds, the cylinder would only lock in place with a firm push, and the trigger pull suddenly jumped about 5 pounds.

I have to ask, after the first six, why did you keep pounding the gun with that crap?

 

[Newton]

Serious BS.

I really don't think that's fair. I know this guy and if he said the loads were reloaded on a SWAT press back in '76 then you can take it to the bank. The boxes were all carefully labelled with the load and date specifics.

I have to ask, after the first six, why did you keep pounding the gun with that crap?

He was doing the shooting with it, I stopped after my "first six" when I saw those primers, but by then the trigger had "gone heavy".