Help for a reloading newbie requested (Pt2)

[AngryBaker]

I posted a question on this board yesterday and got some great info and answers but, alas I have run into another problem please bear with me.

I recently just got into reloading. I have been trying to load some 9mm Luger. I am using a Hornady GS-1500 scale which seems to be the problem

It seems this scale will not cooperate and will never give me an accurate reading.

Here is the load I am trying to produce.
This is my first load and I just want to start off with some lower powered range ammo using the Minimum charge like recommended.

Bullet: 125 grain lead RN
Powder: Hodgdon HP-38
Primer: CCI small pistol

Min powder charge: 3.9 gr
Max powder charge 4.4 gr

I set up my powder measure 3/4 of the way full with HP-38 and start adjusting and throwing charges to measure. Once I get my scale close I throw 4 charges and measure them after I have an idea where I am I slowly adjust my powder measure until I get an average of 3.9-4.0 grains. Once my measure is set up and firmly locked into place I throw 6 charges to ensure I am still in the 3.9-4.0 grain area.

Here are my results from my scale

1. 3.8gr
2. 4.3gr
3. 4.1gr
4. 4.4gr
5. 3.7gr
6. 3.9gr
7. 4.0gr
8. 3.8gr
9. 4.1gr
10.4.2gr

I have tried this about 10 times now with similar results adjusting in either direction, I get similar results every time I get either way too much powder or way too little, and all the charges are wildly inconsistent.

The other problem I have is about every 10 measures the scale completely loses calibration and has to be re-calibrated or else powder weights become even more inconsistent to the tune of +-0.08 grains of powder. Even with the same charge from the powder measure the scale can vary the weight about +-.002 grains, for example I'll throw a charge and I will get 4.2gr I will take it off the scale and set it back down again and it might say anything from 3.8gr to 4.4gr. I must admit the rest of my reloading processes so far went very smooth but this is really frustrating.

I cannot even get a reading on whether or not my charges are even in the safe ranges for this load. I do not know whether I am just incompetent or if my powder measure is just throwing bad charges or my scale is not working correctly.

If you gents have any insight please let me know

Thanks
Angrybaker

 

[cfullgraf]

Most electronic scales should have a "zero" button and a way of calibrating the scale. They seem like. but are not the same thing.

The scale should only need to be calibrated once upon start up but it will need to be re-zeroed frequently. Scales should be turned on and allow to "warm" up before using. I usually turn the scale on the first thing when I go to reload. By the time I am ready to use the scale it has been on for a period of time. I calibrate it and weigh away.

The zero button, sometimes called a tare zero or tare weight or something similar allows you to place a pan on the scale and have it read "zero". This way you do not have to subtract the weight of the pan from your item being weighed.

I push the tare zero button frequently on my electronic scales, every two or three powder charges when I am adjusting the measure. The scale does tend to drift, but resets properly after I push the tare zero button.

You can use check weights to check this out, or record the weight of your pad and use it as a "check weight"

When ever I am checking the powder measure charge during the reloading session, I always re-zero the tare weight before weighing the charge.

I have two scale pans, one stays on the scale and I use the other to transfer the charge the scale. That way, I do not remove the "zero-ed" pan from the scale before weighing the charge.

 

[243winxb]

New powder measure? Was it cleaned & then 1 lb of powder cycled threw it? What does the scale show when the 100 Gram Check Weight is place on it? Your scale accurace is rated at- Accuracy: +/-0.2 Grain

 

[chrt396]

It might be a lot of static electricity built up in that new measure. As mentioned...run a hopper of powder through the measure to coat it and you may also take a dryer sheet and wipe the parts down inside to reduce the static electricity. I have a can of static guard, (buy at CVS or Walgreens) that I use sometimes that eliminates static electricity. I spray it lightly and let it dry thoroughly and go about my merry way reloading.

 

[777TRUTH]

Have the same scale and same problem. Get a good beam scale like the RCBS 505. You will be much happier.

 

[rcmodel]

It may not be the scale, as much as the way you are using the powder measure.

When you fill it with powder, you need to throw 10-15 charges minimum in order for the powder in the hopper to settle and pack down the way it will be while throwing charges later. And it needs to be operated EXACTLY the same each throw.

If you bump it accidently?
Throw the charge and dump it back in the powder can, not the powder hopper on the measure. If you dump it back on top of the powder in the hopper, throw several more charges to get back to square one with the normal hopper packing again.

If you move the adjustment.

Start all over again and throw 5-10 more before you get serious about weighing them.


Then, most digital scales need to be turned on for 15- 30 minutes to "warm up" to operating temp and hold calibration without drifting as they warm up more.

Then you need to follow the Zero instructions and zero them before use.

rc

 

[AngryBaker]

Thanks for quick replies

For those not familiar with the Hornady GS-1500 it is a battery operated and it shuts off after 30 seconds of not being used so it is hard to let it warm up.

I do use the tare function to subtract the weight of the pan from the powder weight, every time I put the pan on the scale it always zeros even though when I take the pan off it it always will go back to a different number in the negatives. even if the it is hard to say what the pan really weighs it has been anywhere from 134.2-135.2gr but, I believe it is around 135.0.

My powder measure is new (RCBS Uniflow) and I have ran about a pound of powder through and it seems to work just fine.

I have been trying to be very consistent when using my powder measure I use the same series of movements each time.

The scale comes with an 100 gram check weight and the scale will without fail within five seconds display a weight of 100.00 grams.

I will give a shot at re-zeroing my scale every time I weigh and let you guys know

Thanks again

 

[dbarnhart]

You have two variables (the powder measure and the scale). You are going to have to figure out a way to eliminate one of them.

 

[Metal Tiger]

You have two variables (the powder measure and the scale). You are going to have to figure out a way to eliminate one of them.

As was previously mentioned, a beam scale is a solid investment and can be used to get "a second opinion" Highly recommend the RCBS 505 or the Redding.

 

[243winxb]

RCBS Uniflow Are you using the Small metering assembly (Sold Separately Item# 917-289) which will throw charges between 0.5 grains to 50 grains.

 

[AngryBaker]

***Update***

Re-zeroing before after every charge seems to have fixed all inconsistency issues the scale is right in the proper margin of error which is alright as I do not plan to work near the max load area with this scale.

I am going to buy a RCBS 505 scale is short order for hotter loads

Thank you for all your help I will probably post a range report once I get these rounds made up again thanks for your help

Angrybaker

 

[rcmodel]

Re-zeroing before after every charge seems to have fixed

That should never be necessary.

Send the scale back to Hornady and whine real loud.
They will either fix it, replace it, or not.

But what you got now just ain't right!

rc

 

[AngryBaker]

For clarification my process is to use the tare button to subtract the weight of the pan, with the pan on the scale the weight is zero.

I then throw a charge and weigh it in the pan after this I dump the powder in the pan back into the powder measure and place the pan back on the scale, I then press the tare button again as suggested above, this has seemed to solve the issue of powder weight being inconsistent after several charges have been thrown

Is this normal or is something wrong with the scale?

 

[Walkalong]

Send the scale back to Hornady and whine real loud.
They will either fix it, replace it, or not.

I agree.

Make Hornady make it right, or help you set it up correctly, whichever comes first.

A few years ago I got so frustrated with the electronic scale I bought, that I bounced it off of a tile floor and chucked it in the garbage. I may have needed to be more patient with it, but was not. I went back to my 505 scale, which I later knocked off the bench and broke. I replaced it with a Redding scale. Both worked/work very well.

Many people love their electronic scales though.

 

[ImjinScout]

I think what he means is to tare it everytime before weighing a charge. I do this quite often. I have the same scale in as worked fine for me, and is within +/-.1 grain. For my loads this has been fine.

What has worked for me is to put the pan on the scale and tare it, then dump the charge in the pan and weigh it. After that I put an empty case on the scale and then tare it and then dump the charge into the case and check it again. I get very consistent weights doing it this way,

 

[kingmt]

I got tired of reading so if this has already been said sorry for repeating. You said the same weight was used &got two different readings so the scale has to be at least part of the problem.

The 5-0-5 isn't all that ether & for the price you can have a good electronic scale that plugs into the wall.

 

[gamestalker]

Here's a couple of things to consider.
1. Make sure there is no air movement in your reloading area, heater vent, cieling fans, open window, ect.
2. Be sure the bench is solid and stable and won't move or flex even a little bit. Also check to be sure the floor isn't flexing. Wood flooring and mobile homes can be a night mare with scales.
3. No magnetic field shoudl be within 5' or 6' of the scale. A tumbler or any other electric motor produces a pretty good magnetic field, plugged in or not.

I've been told that some lighting fixtures can cause problems too, something to do with the ballist I think?

 

[cfullgraf]

For those not familiar with the Hornady GS-1500 it is a battery operated and it shuts off after 30 seconds of not being used so it is hard to let it warm up.

In my opinion, it is one of the problems with the battery only scales. Some designer has gotten too worried about saving battery power than allowing the scale to operate properly.

The auto shut of is good idea, 30 seconds is way too short.

 

[FROGO207]

I haven't seen anyone mention the batteries yet. He said that it was battery powered and I have seen even brand new batteries not be good. I would try replacing the batteries with another known good set and try it before sending it back as suggested. I personally have abandoned the electronic scales for anything requiring precision. They are OK for weighing bullets to make sure they are size x not size y but to weigh them for load development - no way.

 

[danbowkley]

I zero my electronic scale about every 10 weighs, when I'm weighing my charges; when I'm setting up my drop for progressively loaded rounds though, I just use my 5-0-5.

I agree that there's something amiss with your scale, either a draft blowing on it or maybe static. Hornady's customer service is great though, give 'em a call and they'll make it right.

I did notice though that with my Lyman DPS1200 electronic measure, it reeeeally doesn't like light charges. It's all over the map below about five or six grains. Not sure if this is an issue with all digital scales or just this one unit. Might try weighing the charge with a 20gr check weight, see if that increases its consistency.

 

[Blue68f100]

Your scales are best suited for rifles loads. 1500gr is going to be in the noise range when you only looking at 5 gr. Get a set of check weights and check the scales at the low end of the range where you operating. If it has an option to run on a power pack I would go that way. Electronic scales need to be on for 30 min for them to stabilize. Using a battery when it turns off every 5 min without use is pita. Electronic scales are very sensitive to air currents and magnetic fields. So make sure it's not being impacted by these. I have a seperate shelf under my bench where I keep mine to shield it from air currents.

Get you the 5-0-5 scales as a check and balance for you electronic scales.

If it's constantly drifting send it back, it should not...

 

[243winxb]

Hornady Instruction GS-1500 Scale

Your scale works better when
operated at normal room temperature. Always allow the scale
to acclimate to normal room temperature for at least one
hour before use.
Give your scale sufficient warm up time; usually 30-60
seconds before calibration to give the internal components a
chance to stabilize. A close distance to other
electronic equipment can all cause an adverse effect on the
reliability and accuracy of your scale. OPERATION Place Scale on a horizontal fl at surface.
1. Press [ON/OFF] key.
2. Wait until "0.0" is displayed.
3. Put the object(s) on the weighing platform.
4. Using the [MODE] key, you can switch between
the weighing units. TARE WEIGHING 1. Turn on scale as described above.
2. Place the “tare item” on the platform.
3. Press [TARE] and wait until "0.0" is displayed.
4. Add the “net-weight-item.” CALIBRATION Calibration is NOT required before fi rst use. Only calibrate if
scale is not weighing properly. Make sure you use the correct
calibration weight for your scale or the calibration will not be
accurate - GS-1500: 100g calibration weight
Calibration Procedures for GS-1500
1. Turn on the scale by pressing the [ON/OFF] key.
2. Wait until the LCD displays "0.00" and then press
and HOLD the [MODE] key for 3 seconds, the LCD will
display "CAL" then release the [MODE] key.
3. Press the [MODE] key again, the LCD will display
"CAL" and then "100.00"
4. Add a 100g calibration weight, the display will show
"PASS" and return to normal weighing mode.
5. Put away the calibration weight and press [ON/OFF]
to turn of the scale and the calibration is finished! More> http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/manuals-current/metalic-reloading/GS-1500.pdf new technology is not always better. IMO.

 

[popper]

Also make sure you don't have the scale under a draft or AC duct.

 

[1KPerDay]

I got an electronic scale and never use it. Seemed inconsistent and the battery was dead after very light use. I use an older Redding balance scale (oil damped) but I leave the oil reservoir empty. It's VERY sensitive and accurate.

I have an older RCBS 5-10 as well but I like the weight adjust on the Redding better.

 

[rick300]

I'm with 243winxb. You should consider the smaller cylinder for your uniflo. I did and it made my powder drops more consistant.

It just makes sense a smaller cylinder makes adjustments more acurate. Rick