Ok my girlfriend bought me the case knife I wanted for my birthday. The thing that gets me is that when it got dull, I attempted to sharpen it. Im still learning to do this. I have a 3 stone system thats shaped like a triangle and rotates for the different stones. I think everyone has seen this system somewhere. Well I attempted to go with the edge that came on the blade but that didnt seem to work. I am trying to keep the 10-15 degree edge free handing it. Anyone have any advice? It really sucks after ten minutes and the knife is only getting duller.
Help getting that perfect angle...
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Valkman
Member
You need to know if the angle you're using is the correct one. Mark the edge with a black marker and try sharpening - if very little black comes off it's the wrong angle. When you find the correct angle it'll take off most or all of the marker. You also might try a bigger angle like 20 degrees.
Kingcreek
Member
freehand is easier for some than others. take your time and use the marker on the bevel as Vman says. consistency is the key.
I had the good fortune of learning when I was small enough to sit on my grandpa's lap at his workshop bench. He guided my hand as I learned to sharpen his chisels and planer blades (large single bevel- much easier) and eventually his pocket knife. He later gave me my first knife, a small case stockman, and a small stone and honing oil.
I had the good fortune of learning when I was small enough to sit on my grandpa's lap at his workshop bench. He guided my hand as I learned to sharpen his chisels and planer blades (large single bevel- much easier) and eventually his pocket knife. He later gave me my first knife, a small case stockman, and a small stone and honing oil.
22-rimfire
Member
If the blade is vertical relative to the stone; it's at 90 degrees. Half that is 45 degrees. Half again is 22.5 degrees. You can use a protractor to visually check the angles in a relative sense to convince yourself that you are in the right ball park angle wise. Hand sharpening is not an exact science, you just have to practice.
The ceramic rods used in some sharpeners are set at an average angle and you just keep your blade vertical as you move over them. They work, but are slow for a really dull knife.
By the way, the "perfect" angle varies. But if you want to sharpen at exactly the same angle, use one of the sharpening systems available like from Spyderco or Lansky.
The ceramic rods used in some sharpeners are set at an average angle and you just keep your blade vertical as you move over them. They work, but are slow for a really dull knife.
By the way, the "perfect" angle varies. But if you want to sharpen at exactly the same angle, use one of the sharpening systems available like from Spyderco or Lansky.
bikerdoc
Moderator In Memoriam
Just my .o2 but go buy a inexpensive knife and use it to practice. You will be surprised at how good you will get after only a few practice sessions.
also search sharpening on this forum and go back some, you will not believe the wealth of knowledge and techniques i gained from this. Some pretty interesting stuff by some very experienced gentlemen.
also search sharpening on this forum and go back some, you will not believe the wealth of knowledge and techniques i gained from this. Some pretty interesting stuff by some very experienced gentlemen.
One thing I learned, after awhile, might help break the "can't get it sharp" wall. If you can't get a knife sharp with a fine grit, go one step coarser. I polished edges for hours and couldn't get things past "sharp", but after I started going fine (600 grit) first, then super fine (1200). I can sharpen a knife pretty fast now. Sometimes we overwork things and we just need a little bit on each step.
I have been constantly improving and tweaking how I do things.
Did use big stones, had trouble holding an angle around any curve in the blade, so I bought some little diamond hones. now I can see how I am holding everything. I do better when I am moving the stone, and not the knife, but that's How I do things.
I recently added some 2000 grit wet/dry sandpaper to my routine. and it adds a nice finish to the edge. Takes less stropping to get a polished edge now. And things end up crazy sharp. Don't really have anything to compare to, but people say benchmade knives are super sharp from the factory. I just put an edge on my benchmade that makes the factory edge look like a butter knife.
Cheap knives are a good idea for practice. Buy a $15-$25 edc knife that you can use and find out what angles hold a better edge, and how to touch up a dull blade. Then buy better knives with better steel as skill improves. Good steel isn't that great if it doesn't have an edge.
I don't know what kind of knives you are into, but learning to sharpen makes any knife more usable. Hope you get things figured out.
I have been constantly improving and tweaking how I do things.
Did use big stones, had trouble holding an angle around any curve in the blade, so I bought some little diamond hones. now I can see how I am holding everything. I do better when I am moving the stone, and not the knife, but that's How I do things.
I recently added some 2000 grit wet/dry sandpaper to my routine. and it adds a nice finish to the edge. Takes less stropping to get a polished edge now. And things end up crazy sharp. Don't really have anything to compare to, but people say benchmade knives are super sharp from the factory. I just put an edge on my benchmade that makes the factory edge look like a butter knife.
Cheap knives are a good idea for practice. Buy a $15-$25 edc knife that you can use and find out what angles hold a better edge, and how to touch up a dull blade. Then buy better knives with better steel as skill improves. Good steel isn't that great if it doesn't have an edge.
I don't know what kind of knives you are into, but learning to sharpen makes any knife more usable. Hope you get things figured out.
MutinousDoug
Member
If I may suggest an in process test for sharpness that may help you "feel out" what you are doing while using a stone?
After sharpening the blade, lay it on the flat of your thumbnail and lightly draw it lightly across the nail at an angle you think you are stoning the blade. If it cuts the nail, the blade is either sharp or you have a burr on that side of the blade. Turn the blade over and do the same for the other side. If the blade cuts on this side too, you have, at worst, a burr that is straight with the blade. If it cuts on one side and skids off the other, the cutting side has a burr turned to that side and needs stropping/stoning. After you are satisfied with the set the grind angle, use a light touch and a fine stone/steel/sandpaper.
I use a 400 wet/dry paper to touch up an edge, going to a 600 and then an automotive 1000 grit to finish for a true razor edge. Then I have stropping rouge (the powder is actually white, but that's what I call it) if I want to see my eyeball under a 10x loupe (but that's really just for looks).
I'll use a steel or a ceramic stick if I'm in the kitchen slicing a turkey or out back slaughtering an elk, but resist the urge to put the steel/stone together with more than a very gentle touch.
HTH
After sharpening the blade, lay it on the flat of your thumbnail and lightly draw it lightly across the nail at an angle you think you are stoning the blade. If it cuts the nail, the blade is either sharp or you have a burr on that side of the blade. Turn the blade over and do the same for the other side. If the blade cuts on this side too, you have, at worst, a burr that is straight with the blade. If it cuts on one side and skids off the other, the cutting side has a burr turned to that side and needs stropping/stoning. After you are satisfied with the set the grind angle, use a light touch and a fine stone/steel/sandpaper.
I use a 400 wet/dry paper to touch up an edge, going to a 600 and then an automotive 1000 grit to finish for a true razor edge. Then I have stropping rouge (the powder is actually white, but that's what I call it) if I want to see my eyeball under a 10x loupe (but that's really just for looks).
I'll use a steel or a ceramic stick if I'm in the kitchen slicing a turkey or out back slaughtering an elk, but resist the urge to put the steel/stone together with more than a very gentle touch.
HTH
22-rimfire
Member
If I may suggest, buy a DMT or similar diamond bench stone in coarse on one side and fine on the other. It's scary how fast the coarse side takes metal off. I use it mostly for axes and machetes, but would be useful for a really dull blade. Then you go slower with the fine side. Actually you go slow in taking metal off regardless of the grit of the stone. You may not be applying enough pressure or doing it consistantly for both sides.
Buy yourself a cheap knife and practice. Better yet, just get a Swiss Army knife, use it, and practice your sharpening there. They sharpen up very quickly. Sharpening does not happen usually in 2 minutes. It takes time. Go easy and pay attention to your angles. You probably have too high of expectations on the speed of sharpening.
I have a real fine hard arkansas stone. I have yet to be able to get a good edge on a knife using that stone. I keep trying and it doesn't happen.
Again, get a diamond stone. They are sold at Lowes and so forth. You don't have to spend $75 for a really good DMT bench stone to sharpen I knife. I have one of the stones like you have too.
Buy yourself a cheap knife and practice. Better yet, just get a Swiss Army knife, use it, and practice your sharpening there. They sharpen up very quickly. Sharpening does not happen usually in 2 minutes. It takes time. Go easy and pay attention to your angles. You probably have too high of expectations on the speed of sharpening.
I have a real fine hard arkansas stone. I have yet to be able to get a good edge on a knife using that stone. I keep trying and it doesn't happen.
Again, get a diamond stone. They are sold at Lowes and so forth. You don't have to spend $75 for a really good DMT bench stone to sharpen I knife. I have one of the stones like you have too.
I had the same exact problem a number of years ago. I tried sharpening on a stone and while my knives would get sharp (I guess I was doing something right), I'd still end up with some stray scratches here and there.
Since then I mostly just use two sharpeners where I don't have to stress out about it. First there's this one...
1) The Lansky Sharpener
http://www.sharpknives.com/sharpeners_lansky_1.htm
How to use a rod guide sharpening system
http://users.ameritech.net/knives/knives1a.htm
Alot of people really like this sytem and I can see why. Your blades stay scratch free, you can use a number of variations (angle and grit) to either get them sharper and to have a slightly thinner edge (15 to 19 degrees) or you can leave them slightly wider for a more general purpose edge (around 19 to 20 degrees). Plus when you have one of these you don't have to worry about your neighbor calling the cops and reporting a raving lunatic.
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2) The Firestone Knife Sharpener (mostly for kitchen knives).
http://www.ajaxgrips.com/ajax/firestone
Using these two means of sharpening my knives means that they're sharp and that I'm not scratching up my blades or ripping my hair out in the process. This way you can still pratice trying to sharpen your freehand skills (just do it on inexpensive knives that don't mean much to you at first) over time and you're not screwing up and/or dulling your favorite blades while you're learning.
This has been my solution anyway.
Since then I mostly just use two sharpeners where I don't have to stress out about it. First there's this one...
1) The Lansky Sharpener
http://www.sharpknives.com/sharpeners_lansky_1.htm
How to use a rod guide sharpening system
http://users.ameritech.net/knives/knives1a.htm
Alot of people really like this sytem and I can see why. Your blades stay scratch free, you can use a number of variations (angle and grit) to either get them sharper and to have a slightly thinner edge (15 to 19 degrees) or you can leave them slightly wider for a more general purpose edge (around 19 to 20 degrees). Plus when you have one of these you don't have to worry about your neighbor calling the cops and reporting a raving lunatic.
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2) The Firestone Knife Sharpener (mostly for kitchen knives).
http://www.ajaxgrips.com/ajax/firestone
Using these two means of sharpening my knives means that they're sharp and that I'm not scratching up my blades or ripping my hair out in the process. This way you can still pratice trying to sharpen your freehand skills (just do it on inexpensive knives that don't mean much to you at first) over time and you're not screwing up and/or dulling your favorite blades while you're learning.
This has been my solution anyway.
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