Help ID my inheritance (S&W .38 is all I know)

[trikster]

I received this when my grandmother passed; S&W .38. From what it looks like, it was a police issue in Austria. It is my first (and only at this time) handgun. I know that she used to shoot it in the late 80's and early 90's before arthritis put a stop to it. I would not be surprised if it has sat unused since then. I know she loved to shoot it and scared the heck out of a would-be mugger with it (blew a hole through her purse when the guy tried to run with it after knocking her down). I am planning on using it as a home defense pistol and never plan on selling it.

I have dry fired it a few times and I can tell that the timing is a tad off. You can see the two blemishes on it in the pictures (spot of rust and a spot of something green...). I am thinking that this will be taken care of with a good cleaning.

I was wondering if you folks would be kind enough to tell me what exactly I have and when it might have been made. With the 573XXX serial, I am guessing in the late 1930's, but I am not sure.

 

[trikster]

Some more pictures...

 

[trikster]

Last bunch of pics...

 

[JHK94]

Looks like a Smith and Wesson Military and Police revolver, with markings of the Austrian Police. correct me if I'm wrong, but most likely it is a "victory" model, made for the British, then given to the Austrian police force after World War II. These were produced, I think, 1941-45.

It is chambered in 38 S&W, not 38 special, btw. Very cool revolver! I think the post-WWII allied weapons issued in Germany and Austria are really neat.

 

[JHK94]

Also, I just noticed, is that a "V" or a "VS" on the left of the butt? I can't see because of the lanyard loop. These "V" prefixes are what usually denote the so-called "victory" models.

 

[Old Fuff]

I think if you lift the lanyard loop you will find the letter "V" or :VS" stamped on the butt. If so the serial number is V 573,xxx.

As others have noted, it is a Smith & Wesson "Victory Model/.38-200" made for the British, and later issued to some Austrian police units following the war.

It was originally chambered to use the .38 S&W cartridge, but following the war some were rechambered to .38 Special. If so, this was not a good thing, so you should have a gunsmith examine the cylinder to see if there is any evidense of rechambering.

If you use the forum's search feature and the key words: S&W .38-200 you should find many previous threads covering your revolver and its history.

 

[trikster]

I assume then that the short ammunition in the last pic are the correct rounds for the gun? I am thinking that the gun may have been rechambered then. I have not put in any rounds, so I don't know if the specials will fit. Is there any way I can tell if it's been rechambered? I have read that this could make the gun unsafe. Are we talking it blowing up in my hand or something else? Should I sell it or would it be ok to shoot etc?

**UPDATE**

I pulled the gun out of my lock-box and looked into the chamber. The ridge looked pretty short up the chamber and when I attempted to insert in one of the target .38 Special rounds, it did not fit, stuck out about 1/4 inch+. So, I dropped in one of the short ones I have in the pic above. Fit like a glove. So I am guessing that this gun has not been rechambered. I assume this makes for a safer gun. I did a little other digging and my example does not have the "S" stamp above the trademark, so I do not have the updated hammer block. Seeing the pictures I have posted, what kind of value do you think this has? Are those rounds made any longer (I keep seeing obsolete), I have not had a lot of luck locating any...?

 

[Old Shooter]

If the 38 Specials will drop right in to the chambers, then it has been rechambered. If it has not been rechambered they will not go all the way into the chamber. Of the ammo pictured, do you know if your grandmother ever shot the 38 Specials or are they something you just picked up?

 

[trikster]

I got all the ammo pictured with the gun (it was all in an old purse of hers when I got it). When I sat down with it after reading Old Fuff's post, only the short ammo in the last picture (5-rounds on the left side of the pic) fit.

All the other ammo is too long. My guess is that my grandmother either had a second stash of ammo, used up all but the 5 rounds in the picture, or there is a .38 Special somewhere else in her house. Knowing her and seeing what is still being pulled out of nooks and crannies of her place, anything is possible.

Since I made my last post nearly an hour ago, I have been searching for a site that sells ammo that will work in this pistol. I have yet to find a single place...

 

[mio]

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/...handgun-38-sw-145-gr-lrn-50-rds.aspx?a=761806

kinda pricey but worth it to keep an heirloom running

 

[Carl N. Brown]

The short cartridges on the left hand of the picture above appear to me to be the ".38 S&W", a shorter slightly fatter cartridge than the .38 Special.

The .38 S&W was an old time black powder cartridge which lasted into the smokeless era. The .38 Special case was actually developed by S&W in 1898 as an improvement on .38 Long Colt as used by the US military, in part to allow use of existing stocks of .38 Long Colt cartridges in .38 Special revolvers. Smith was looking to replace the .38 LC which underperformed in the Philipines against fanatic insurgents.

If a .38 Spl stops 1/4" short of chambering, the revolver is in original .38S&W.

Anyway, a .38 S&W rechambered for .38 Special would have a loose chamber which would affect reloading fired .38 Special casings more than it would affect safety. The Victory models were made in .38S&W and in .38Spl and some importers after the war thought they would sell better if they were "improved" by being rechambered. A couple of guys at the club shot in vintage military match with unaltered .38S&W cal Victory Model revolvers with very good scores.

 

[Old Fuff]

First of all, even if the revolver was rechambered it wouldn't blow up. The worst thing that could happen is that a .38 Special case might split at the front when you fired it, and accuracy would likely be less then expected.

If it is truly unaltered it has a collector's value in the $300 to $400 range. What is causing the high value (which is still going up) is that so many were rechambered that collectors find it hard to find one in good shape that wasn't.

 

[OldCavSoldier]

You can find .38S&W ammo at GunBroker.com. It is a little pricey, but, if you know somebody who reloads, or you want to get into reloading (definitely save your brass) then the cost will come down a bit.

 

[trikster]

Taking heirloom out of the equation, in your opinion, should I keep or sell? I don't really have a desire to have a large collection. My primary goal is for home protection. I have a family that I worry about. I will most likely be inheriting a very old shotgun that is a family heirloom that I will not part with (I will be the forth generation) and a bolt action rifle that appears to be really nice. There are two more long guns on consignment, but don't know what they are.

My other issue is funds. Those .38 S&W rounds are not cheap. The only thing I am thinking of picking up is a .22LR pistol for learning on and saving a few at the range. What would you all do?

 

[bottom shelf]

If it were me, I'd definitely keep the .38S&W because of it's interesting history (Not heirloom history, but history of the model). I'd buy a box or 2 of ammo and take it to the range only on special occasions and fire 6 or 12 (maybe 18) rounds out of it. Then it would be returned to the safe.

Many people refuse to keep "safe queens" and only want stuff viable for home defense or other practical purposes. Not me. Guns are not ONLY tools for me. They're cherished possessions and I keep them if I like them. I have several "safe queens" that come out probably less than once a year, but I still like them. Most others are more practical and consequently come with me to the range much more frequently.

If the day ever comes that I have to peddle off some of the stock, the safe queens will not automatically be the first to go. Nor the last. They'd be in the middle somewhere. One of the 1911s would probably be the last to go. I hope that day never comes.

 

[splithoof]

Magtech currently loads this cartridge. My MIL bought a couple of boxes by mistake thinking it was for a .38 Special. Try Northwestern shooter supply.

 

[KJS]

Many people refuse to keep "safe queens" and only want stuff viable for home defense or other practical purposes. Not me. Guns are not ONLY tools for me. They're cherished possessions and I keep them if I like them.

Yeah, it all boils down to personal preference. To me a gun is simply a tool and its value to me is determined by how well it performs for me. I have an inherited S&W 10 that's five years older than me and it's actually a fairly nice gun so I'm happy to keep it.

I know someone who is absolutely fascinated by rare, unusual, and exotic firearms. The more exotic it is the more appeal it has to him. To me the history the guns he loves is mildly interesting, but in the end they're just old guns to me.

 

[trikster]

If I do decide to go with a different gun, I would like to clean this one up (something I need to do regardless) what can I do about that spot of rust on the following pic?

 

[Pete D.]

Magtech makes ammo for the .38 S&W. So does Remington, Privi Partizan, Winchester, Fiocchi.
It is not hard to find.
Online, it is available from a number of sources.
Pete

 

[SaxonPig]

That is the typical Victory Model made 1942-45 for Great Britain. The 5" barrel, lanyard on butt, and grey finish are all correct. The V is part of the serial. Most S&Ws have a letters in the serials but for some reason many people ignore them when describing the guns. Go figure.

The proper caliber is the 38 S&W (not 38 Special). I have several guns in this caliber but I reload my ammo so it's not a problem. Factory 38 S&W is often hard to find and is pricey, making it a poor choice as a shooter for the casual gun owner who buys ammo.

 

[robert garner]

I would latch onto that pistol like an Alabama tick. The philosophy of the cartridge flies in the face of the American ideal by giving a low velocity, long for its caliber bullet plenty of accuracy which will yaw on contact with its target(turn on its side) delivering an inch wide wound with what was called"dwell time" supposedly a very effective round,easy to master because of its low recoil and mild report. The British were renowned for their effective weaponry, they were masters at it for hundreds of yrs.The pistol itself appears to be in excellent condition and its value will only increase with time, it would be a shame to lose it for many reasons.
robert

 

[Taurus 617 CCW]

The only thing you can do about that rust is to get a toothbrush, some solvent and spend some time gently scrubbing at it. Once the surface rust is removed, add some gun oil to prevent it from rusting further.

 

[woad_yurt]

A PB Blaster soaking will losen up crud like crazy without harming the gun or its finish.

BTW, that gun is in fantastic shape! It's nice to see an intact original for a change. Also, if you want ammo, Magtech, Fiocchi and others make .38 S&W and it sells for as low as $22/box. The Fiocchi is the hottest with like 100 more FPS than most of the others.

 

[DPris]

I'd keep it as an heirloom.
I would not use it for defensive purposes, the .38 S&W is way down the list of effective calibers for such purposes.
Denis

 

[Old Fuff]

Am I to understand that a revolver/cartridge combination adopted by the U.K and used from the late 1930's to the Korean War as a military sidearm is not equal to serving as a weapon for home protection?