Help Identifying & Valuing Old S&W .38

[DougB]

A friend of mine has been offered an old (I think) S&W .38 revolver by a lady who "inherited" it (we don't really know the circumstances). Anyway, it has a nicely blued finish, but I think it has been refinished, because nearly all the markings are worn off. I'm guessing that they were polished off in preparation for the re-bluing. I can't find any legible model designation (it has numbers and markings everywhere - but few are complete and legible). It is a smallish 6-shot revolver with about a 4" barrel and fixed sights. .38 Special ammo fits fine. The hammer has the firing pin held in with what appears to be a roll pin (it is quite loose - the roll pin even worked partially out while we were handling it). The cylinder latch is difficult to operate (you often have to work the action a bit to get it to unlatch). The cylinder doesn't lock especially tight for firing, but doesn't have too much play either (compared to other revolers with which I'm familar). So, it isn't in perfect mechanical condition, but I think it would be shootable (with a little care).

It has medium-small mother-of-pearl grips (plastic I imagine). I haven't handled an old S&W revolver for a long time - I thought a Model 10 would be a little larger - but maybe my expectations have been warped by 686s, 629s, and such. It appears to have a date engraved on top of the barrel (looks like December 29, with "14" on either side of it. But it is nearly rubbed off, so this may be incorrect. Could this be 1914? I scanned both sides of it, but I've never had any luck posting photos. Any idea what this is? What it might be worth? Is there a web site with photos and descriptions of older S&W revolvers?

My friend can probably buy it for about whatever he offers. It isn't something he particularly wants (he has a small collections of guns already - including a .357), but if he can get a good deal on it he may take it. Given the apparent refinish job, cylinder latch problem, and loose firing pin, I'm guessing maybe $50, but I really don't know. What do you think?

Doug

 

[Josey]

It could be a S&W Model of 1905 38 Special Hand Ejector. The barrel markings seem to match with mine. The grips could be worth more than the revolver. I would NOT even load that revolver. A check up by a gunsmith would be required and I suspect it would not pass inspection. Value? None really. If the grips are in good shape, $15.00 sounds right to me. I have bought revolvers in that condition for $35.00 and less. It has had a hard life. I guess that a pin is broken that secures the action bar internally. That would explain the difficulty in operating the cylinder latch. I would suspect all of the springs internally also to be in need of replacement. I hazard that it is worn out. A gunsmith can confirm or advise parts needed and cost. Is it a round butt or square butt? Is the trigger smooth or are there vertical lines machined into it? How many screws? There should be a screw in front of the trigger guard, a screw in the front of the frame, (mainspring tension), a sideplate with a screw at the top, a screw behind the trigger, a screw over the top of the grip (could be under the grip) and the crane lock screw just forward of the trigger. Mine has a very small "pinched" rear sight and a big half round front sight. I have a "mushroom" ejector with a notch cut in the barrel and a small spring-loaded pin lock for the ejector head. Alternatively. you could have a WWII M&P. Same value in that poor condition.

 

[Jim K]

IF it is a S&W, and IF the patent date is 1914, it has to be the .38 Hand Ejector (Military and Police), fourth model. That is the gun that basically was the M&P of WWII and was also made as the "Victory Model". In good condition, it would be safe to fire with standard .38 Special loads (not +P or +P+).

But I would certainly not fire it until you have it checked over by a competent gunsmith. If it was that heavily polished, the metal may be too thin to be safe.

The butt number on those was heavily stamped, so providing it might help. The "Smith & Wesson" on the barrel was also heavily stamped and it would take a lot of polishing to completely remove it.

NOTE: There are many Spanish copies of that gun around that were made of cheap metal; those are unsafe to shoot in any condition.

Jim

 

[DougB]

Thanks guys for the info. I'm here with my friend and the revolver, and it does fit the descripiton of the 1905 Hand Ejector. If it helps, the serial number on the butt of the gun (which is clear) is "V 274228." The top of the barrel says "Springfield Mass USA." Below that it says (as nearly as we can make out) ".14.09.DEC.29.14" Also, it does appear that the white mother-of-pearl grips are real. Also, there is a small "v" on the cylinder between where the cartridges are inserted. When the cylinder is swung open, you can see the following numbers that are normally hidden by the cylinder crane "O7" and "20466" and "46587." The trigger is grooved. On the barrel it appears to say "38 S&W CTG" (.38 Specials fit fine). It has a square butt.

I suspect you are right about the gun being worn out. Its still tempting, however, because the grips appear authentic and look nice, and the blue job is nice looking. You could almost take it for a new gun until you notice that the markings are all worn/buffed off and the mechanics are shaky.

Thanks again for the information.

Doug

 

[Old Fuff]

Doug,

Measure the barrel from the cylinder face to the end of the muzzle. I suspect it may be 5 inches, although 4 inches is possible.

The marking on the side of the barrel indicates it should be chambered for the .38 S&W cartridge, not the .38 Special. If the gun has been rechambered it might not be safe too shoot. The "V" in the serial number indicates it was made during World War Two between 1942 and 1945.

I suspect that someone rechambered (and thereby possibly ruined) the cylinder from .38 S&W to .38 S&W Special, reblued it, and replace the original plain walnut grips with the pearl(?) ones now on it. In the process they ruined whatever collector's value it might have and compromised it's use as a shooter.

Edited to add: If the grips are real pearl and not damaged or chipped they could be worth anywhere from $50.00 to $100.00 to a collector who would put them on another gun. They may in fact, be worth more then the gun itself. Someone might give you as much as $175.00 for the gun to get the grips.

 

[Marshall]

Yea, sometimes grips can be worth a lot.


Here's a pair of Colt Carved Steer Head Grips for a New Service revolver. $975.00

 

[Josey]

I was afraid that would turn out to be a WWII M&P that had been butchered. I have one myself. I gave $30.00 for it. I imagine that is a 4" barrel. The rechambering almost always involved cutting the barrels also. The BIG SAFETY FACTOR is that often 357 Magnum can also be chambered. Not a good idea. If the grips are genuine MOP, I would say $150.00 on value for just the grips. Check to see if there is a black hard rubber backer for the MOP. There are different qualities of MOP. The cheaper ones were backed with the black hard rubber plates and even plastic.

 

[DougB]

It is starting to look like the grips may be the most valuable part. When I first saw the gun, I just assumed they were plastic, but on closer inspection (jeweler's magnifier) they appear to be real. Also, we noticed that one side is thicker than the other, and the colors and "grain" don't match perfectly (I'm sure they are a set - I think this is just natual variation). There is slight roughness on a couple of edges where the material has been scraped a bit, but basically the grips are in very good shape. Thanks again for he info.

Doug