Help me better understand Elevation and Windage

[Rockrivr1]

Let me start by saying that I understand what Elevation and Windage does and why. My question is more to the point of knowing how much to use of each when having to adjust your sights or scopes.

I shoot Highpower and my AR is zeroed at 200 yards. It took me many many shots to get the zero at that range right. When I have to move out to 300 and 600 yards I basically adjust my elevation. I adjust it using a recommended setting an instructor suggested when I took a beginners course. So, every time I shoot Highpower I use the same settings. I'm beginning to understand that this is probably why I very rarely break 400.

Also, I have two rifles that are scoped. They are an FN Special Police in 308 and a Serbu BFG 50. The 308 is zeroed in at 200 yrds and the 50 BMG is zeroed in at 600 yrds. To be honest I wouldn't touch these setting unless I absolutely had to. Hell, after I was done I'd have to try and zero them in on my original settings. This concerns me as my shoulder hurt like hell after all the shots it took to zero it in the first place.

With that said, what do you do to adjust your windage and elevation and then get them back to your original configuration reliably? Are there any tricks I should know? Any guides I can get and try to follow?

Right now I can get great groups with the setting I currently have. But I know that makes me a one dimensional long gun shooter. If the need ever comes around where I have to adjust on the move, I'll become a WAY sub par marksman.

Any advise is appreciated.

 

[Henry Bowman]

There is a software learning tool that I highly recommend at http://www.shooterready.com The interactive web site lets you see how it works, but does not show all of the valuable lessons that are part of the product. This is not a game. It is an instructional tool to learn long range shooting skills (that have to be perfected on the range with live fire practice). It costs $40 postpaid and is worth much more.

 

[georgeduz]

sight in at 25yards ,and you will be good to out to 300 yards.turn Elevation under your back sight, clockwize one click.sight in at 25meters or yards,click it back.you should be good to go.this is how we do it in the army,we shoot the pop up targets out to 300 meters.no problem at all.

 

[TallPine]

With that said, what do you do to adjust your windage and elevation and then get them back to your original configuration reliably?

You shouldn't have to adjust the windage for different ranges. OTOH, when shooting in a crosswind, you may have to aim to the left or right of your target somewhat to allow for the wind pushing the bullet off its normal course. (I believe that is why it is called windage )

The elevation of course may need some "adjustment" to account for increasing bullet drop (to state it simply) for different ranges. Many times you also do this simply by "holding over" your target by an estimated amount. I guess some scopes have hold over marks for various ranges. But typically a modern hunting rifle would be zeroed at about 200 yards which would make it a couple inches high at 100 yds and maybe three inches low at 300 yds. That's an acceptable variation (within a 6" circle) that you wouldn't have to allow for on a big game hunt.

With open sights that have some sort of "step" integrated into them (like the sawtooth ramp) you can either remember or write down the proper step for each range (or range/load). AK rifles even have the yardages marked on the hinged rear sight.

I guess some hi-quality scopes are supposed to be able to be adjusted N clicks up and then N clicks back down and return to the original zero. But I've always been told not to rely on optics to do that.

BTW, each elevation setting results in 2 zeroes: one at a short range as the bullet rises through your line of sight, and one farther out (the one you normally refer to) as the bullet drops back through your line of sight. This happens because your line of sight (a straight line) is somewhat above your barrel and the bullet path is a shallow parabola.

Consequently, you can get your rifle zero pretty close at 25 yards for most scoped bolt actions, and then verify it at a longer range. Also, those bore sighting tools do work, as I used to bore sight new rifles/scopes at a gunshop. One customer went out and killed a deer without even checking it!

 

[Rockrivr1]

Thanks guys for the advise.

 

[Infidel]

In general, the sights, particularly elevation, get adjusted whenever you're shooting at another fixed distance; they get adjusted to another known setting for that distance, and then get returned to some baseline zero after the match. Many people use a baseline zero at 100 yards, then determine their "comeups",-- the number of clicks and the sight elevation settings, for various distances from there. The 100 yards baseline zero is not magic, just traditional.

Example,-- smallbore silhouette involves .22 LR at 40, 60, 77, AND 100 meters. Competitors usually have their rifle zeroed at 40 meters, and sight settings determined ahead of time, using ballistics software and range sessions, for the other ranges. After shooting the chickens at 40 meters, they change their sight setting so that they can hold centered on the next animal at the next distance. For instance, it takes about 8 minutes of elevation to go from chickens at 40 meters to rams at 100 meters. The change is made by using the graduations on the scope turret and by counting clicks.

The same sort of sight adjustment takes place in highpower silhouette, shot at 200, 300, 385, and 500 meters. And in NRA Highpower and NRA Smallbore, where the sights are (usually) aperture type iron sights. Changing distances, change the sight settings to match the new distance, and use the same sight picture at all distances.

Many long-range shooters also dial in windage.

Your sights should, and scopes do, have a scale for resetting them back to a known setting, as well as clicks to determine how far you have moved them. Getting familiar with them is like getting familiar with the rifle, ... it IS part of getting familiar with the rifle.

Any decent quality scope should track and return to a known zero without any problem, as should any decent target iron sights. Determining the correct settings for various distances, that is, determining various "zero"s, isn't really difficult. Use a ballistic calculator to get close, then range time to get it right on. And range time is NEVER a bad thing.

 

[hillbilly]

Here's something I have also learned.

The only way to "reliably" get your elevation down is to keep a notebook and record into that notebook every time you shoot....noting the range, the temp, the relative humidity, the ammo you used, etc. etc.

At 100 yards, for example, in my M1A, there can be a 10 inch vertical discrepancy between impact points just by switching brands of ammo. The groups are still tight, but the point of impact moves vertically 10 inches.

Your 200 yard correct elevation for one brand of ammo with one bullet weight when it's cloudy, damp, around 34 degrees may be significantly different from the same brand of ammo, the same bullet weight, when it's sunny, dry, and 98 degrees.

And in the highpower game, significant changes of impact are rather small.

But when you talk "battlesight zero" or general sight settings, you are talking about producing hits on a target that is torso-sized, roughly 20 inches wide by 36 or 40 inches tall.

That's what the "battle" part of "battlesight zero" means....minute of torso.

The 10X ring of a highpower target is significantly smaller than that, and thus requires a lot more information and precision.

One more example.

When I took my accurized Rem 700 to a couple of "sniper" courses, I was shooting at 1.5 MOA targets at the 300 yard mark. That means I was trying to hit a target that was roughly 4.5 inches in diameter.

However, when I came home, and was playing out on the range with the same rifle, and I tried to hit the capital letter "E" on an old Federal Express envelope I stapled up at 300 yards, my 300 yard dope from the class just wouldn't get it done.

The reason? Aiming at a 4.5 inch wide target at 300 yards is a lot different than aiming at a 1-inch wide target at 300 yards.

I had to make a couple of clicks up to get near the middle of the 1-inch E.

Also, what was non-important windage on a 4.5 inch target suddenly because a yawning chasm of missed shots on a 1-inch target.

And no, I never managed to hit that capital letter E in the wind that day. But a good friend of mine most certainly did smack that E with my rifle.

The smaller the target, the great chances for variances.

hillbilly

 

[Matt-man]

I shoot Highpower and my AR is zeroed at 200 yards. It took me many many shots to get the zero at that range right. When I have to move out to 300 and 600 yards I basically adjust my elevation. I adjust it using a recommended setting an instructor suggested when I took a beginners course. So, every time I shoot Highpower I use the same settings. I'm beginning to understand that this is probably why I very rarely break 400.

I don't understand what you mean by that last sentence. I use the same elevation settings every time I shoot a match too, given the same range & ammo. Everybody I know has recorded settings for the various distances, and just dials up the appropriate elevation for the given yard line. If there's another method, I'm unaware...

With that said, what do you do to adjust your windage and elevation and then get them back to your original configuration reliably?

I shoot an M1A and a bolt-action match rifle. On the M1A elevation settings for 200, 300, and 600 are each a certain number of clicks from the bottom. Windage is set with the front sight so that centered on the rear sight is truly centered. On the match rifle the scales on the rear sight can be moved to zero out the scales. I'm not familiar with the AR sight system though.

Right now I can get great groups with the setting I currently have. But I know that makes me a one dimensional long gun shooter. If the need ever comes around where I have to adjust on the move, I'll become a WAY sub par marksman.

Well... to be effective at various ranges, you need to know the trajectory of your ammunition. You need to know how much it's going to drop for a given range, and then dial in that amount of elevation to get you in the ballpark. This is why you often see precision rifle shooters with ballistics charts - once they determine range to target they can determine how much elevation they need.

 

[Zak Smith]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=154213
OPTICS FOR PRACTICAL LONG RANGE RIFLE SHOOTING

 

[striker3]

You shouldn't have to adjust the windage for different ranges. OTOH, when shooting in a crosswind, you may have to aim to the left or right of your target somewhat to allow for the wind pushing the bullet off its normal course. (I believe that is why it is called windage

He is using an Ar type rifle, Kentucky windage should never be used, that is why there is a windage adjustment knob.

There are adjustment charts out there that will tell you how much each click is supposed to move your impact, but if you are serious about it, it is best to compile your own data using your specific rifle.

The best thing that you can do is to go to each yard line and keep a detailed record of each shot fired. Use the same type of ammo loads, and your rifle dope will become predictable. The only variable should be weather. Once again, the only way to learn to shoot in different types of weather is to shoot in it. Practice makes perfect in shooting just like in any other sport.

 

[rocky]

Shoot more competition. record you settings and weather ,wind conditions. Consult a chart showing bullet drop for diffrent bullet weights /calibers. Scopes/sights should have clicks graduated by 1/8,1/4, 1/2 " adjustment at 100 yrds. It takes some playing witht o figure out. Also a good Bullet Drop compensated scope might make it alot easier on you.