Help me debate..

[doubleg]

I have run across a communist person on the internet, i'm sure he has good intentions but what do I say to show him what communism actually does. He is hardcore soviet flag waver. The ideas of what to say are floating around in my head but i'm having trouble putting them into words. Any help?

the people who do nothing are not meant to be paid at all, this would be made possible with the introduction of strict inspectors who are then scrutinized to make sure that they do not become corrupt, and in a true communism the people are the ones who make the decisions, everything goes for them the only exception would be military leaders, this is the main flaw in communism, and the reason why it can only function in peaceful societies. With peace there is no need for military power, and thus rendering the threat of the military taking power useless. this is another reason why communism is not possible in the current society, man has not yet evolved past the need for war. the only reason why people like me consider ourselves communists, even though we know that it cannot currently work out, is to keep the ideals and to work to make towards the evolution of mankind.

One of the main reasons why people do not take communism into consideration for a government system is because they take Stalin's Soviet Union as an example of communism. The communism of Stalin is not true communism, it is Soviet Communism, a system that is filled with corruption and totalitarianism. This sets a poor example of how the dreams of the communist people will turn out.

I believe that the eventuality of communism is the emergence of a peaceful Anarchy only possible in a world that has abandoned the notions of a class system, and the ideas of capitalism. As i said before, this is a scenario that mankind is far from being able to realize because we have not learned that the best way to live is without a need for money, and a government to blindfold us and lead us through fire and destruction and tell us that it will be OK.

Socialism is a gigantic leap forward in the ideas of man, and i believe that it is currently the best way to do things, and that it will allow people to gain understanding and it will open the people's minds and this will in turn allow communism to flourish. I know that this is not the goal of most socialists but it is a possibility that may come to light in later years.
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[strat81]

People are greedy and self-centered by their very nature. Until I am convinced otherwise, most folks are only concerned about #1 and will take advantage of something. I am guilty of this myself, to some extent. I am greedy: I deserve to keep what I earn and work for. I do not want to give it to someone else because the government says I have to. If I choose to share my wealth, so be it. Communism seems to kill choice.

"Tragedy of the commons" comes to mind. That is to say, someone else will do it.

Also, ask them to identify one successful communist state. The ones I know of are either gone, living under tyranny, or are third-world countries (or a combination thereof). Oh yes, on paper it seems like it might work. But for all of the good people, there are lazy people and evil people.

 

[shield20]

Systems based on the "desire of people to do what is best for the whole" is flawed. No one wants to break their back so someone less deserving can benefit from their hard work. We may have equal rights, but we are not all equal in reality - not physically, and not mentally. Reward mediocrity, and you get more mediocrity in return.

Socialism is a sad grasp for those who just can not do as well, or who won't do as well, to try to get their UNfair share. Its is sanctioned stealing and redistribution of other's earned wealth.

 

[quatin]

Why the red bashing McCarthism here on the board? Communist/Socialist ideas are integrated in the US government/economy. Minimum wage, welfare, social security, anti-trust laws, trade laws, government owned utilities, the FDA and probably more I can't think of. Most of these were not "shared concepts", but things arisen from socialist scholars. Communism attempts to force everyone to work for the common good. Whereas in the west, we just concede that people are too greedy and selfish to work together. Let them have their dreams of utopia.

I deserve to keep what I earn and work for. I do not want to give it to someone else because the government says I have to. If I choose to share my wealth, so be it. Communism seems to kill choice.

Actually, it's the other way around in the US. Unless you have some $50million of worth, people will be giving to you. The garbage man and the businessman makes the same wage in a socialist society (ideally?). You are the garbage man (as is 90% of americans, figuratively speaking) and the mega millionaires/billionaires are the businessmen.

 

[mpmarty]

True Socialism is a fine ideal and when the lion lays down with the lamb it may be a workable societal solution. Until then, it is as viable as a snowflake in hell.

"Any young person who isn't a bit of a socialist has no heart.
Any mature person who is a socialist has no brain." anon as AFIK

 

[doubleg]

Thanks everyone they are all very good points.