Help me decide: Mosin Nagant or Savage Mark II

[BigBL87]

I understand that the two are drastically different guns so it seems like an odd question, but hear me out. As soon as I can scrounge up the money I will be buying my first firearm, a Mossberg 500 12 gauge. My primary reason for owning a firearm is home defense which is why I'm getting the Mossberg. After that, though, I figure my second gun should be more of a "fun" thing.

So I know alot of people's first rifle is a .22lr for good reason, and if I planned on hunting or getting seriously into marksmanship I'd be going with the Mark II no questions asked. But in Illinois you can't hunt deer with a rifle (shotgun/bow/pistol only) and most of the shooting I will do will be out at my in-laws land sporadically. I'm a big World War II/History buff, and the idea of owning a rifle from that era is pretty cool. Not to mention, I imagine the Mosin is probably pretty cool to shoot.

So, what are your guys' thoughts?

 

[silicosys4]

A Mosin is cool to shoot, I have one myself, and ammo is cheap. If your interests lie in making noise, shooting for dirt cheap, and keeping things relatively short ranged, its a great gun. The Savage would be more expensive to shoot, but with good optics you have the option of playing with longer range shots.

 

[rondog]

Get the .22 first, IMO. The .22lr ammo shortage won't last forever, and you can have more outright FUN with a .22 rifle than any other gun. Mosins are cool too, but you can't plink around for hours with one like you can a .22.

 

[sixgunner455]

A savage mkII is a .22lr, so if you can find ammo, it should be cheaper to shoot than the Mosin. The Mosin is capable of hunting deer, but the .22 isn't legal for hunting deer in most states, let alone Illinois, where you can't hunt with any rifle. So hunt deer with your Mossberg, pick up an inexpensive Mosin if you really want one, but get a .22 if you really want to learn to shoot a rifle well without spending all your money on ammunition and ibuprofen for your shoulder.

 

[BCRider]

Silicosys, the Mk II is a .22LR. I know that 7.62x54R ammo is cheap but it's still not as cheap as .22lr. Well, at least not when prices are normal. I've heard some stories......

But soon enough rimfire ammo prices will be more or less back to normal and the Savage will again be dirt cheap to shoot.

The Savage will always be the price it is. Or at least it won't go up a whole lot between now and when you buy one. But the prices on Mosins seem to be going up pretty steadily from the stories I read on THR. So it may be time to get one, or two, now instead of waiting.

And yes they are pretty cool to shoot. I'm quite enjoying mine. But the batch of cheap milsurp ammo I got only gives me 8 to 10 inch groups at 100 yards. I've heard folks that got far better performance from their milsurp stuff but it's a crap shoot if you get good ammo or junk. So you won't know if it is the ammo or the rifle or you. And trust me. After the initial fun of thumping your shoulder and beating the bolt handle around to load the Mosin you'll likely find that you're left with a rifle and ammo that makes you wonder if it's the rifle, the ammo or you that can't shoot worth beans. At least there's a good chance of that. And buying commercial ammo such as Privi Partizan or other decent stuff gets pricey quickly.

The real answer if you like to shoot a fair amount on a regular basis is to load your own. That way you can load high grade loads for pretty cheap. Not as cheap as buying milsurp stuff but you'll know it's a lot better.

That's the point where I am now. The rifle proved that it's a capable shooter when it's fed the right stuff. And that right stuff doesn't come out of a green SPAM can. So I'm just about to launch into reloading my own 7.62x54R ammo.

Anyway I say get both. The only question is which comes first. And for fun and giggles that would be the Mosin. Just don't go nutz buying the milsurp in BIG batches since if you get the stuff which groups poorly then it'll be money wasted.

 

[BigBL87]

Ya, I honestly figure I'll eventually get both but my "hobby" money is limited by home repairs so I can only get one right now.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

Buy a Maverick over an Mossberg, which will save a few bucks, then walk buy the Savage and buy a CZ bolt .22.

 

[Davek1977]

I believe every collection should include at LEAST one 22 LR. Theres no need for power and recoil when learning the basics of marksmanship. Once you get a firm grasp of basic technique down, then I'd venture into the world of center-fire, and even at that point, a Mosin wouldn't be my first, second, third, or even fourth pick of a weapon. Yes, they are cheap, and yes ammo for them is cheap. That said, there are several rather inexpensive firearms I personally believe would suit you much better. While most people don't learn to drive in a Porsche, on the same token, most don't learn on a Model T, either. I personally would take a long look at Stevens/Savage, Marlin, Ruger, etc when its time to move up....these rifles are accurate, have "modern" safeties as opposed to the PITA safety of the Mosin, and can all be had right around the $300 mark in a variety of calibers from .223 thru 30-06. I personally think, especially in the long term, that you'd enjoy any of the above mentioned rifles more than the Mosin. I've tried to talk myself into buying a Mosin, on multiple occasions, but each time, I find something more worthy of my limited spending allowances. Other than "owing a piece of history" (like hundreds of thousands of other people) the Mosin just doesn't offer any practical advantages (aside from a SLIGHT cost difference) over more modern rifles.

 

[hartcreek]

Mosins can be plenty accurate out to 300m and more. Hold off on any 22 till the price on ammo drops. I have several thousand dollar 22s just collecting dust right now cause it is so hard to get ammo.

 

[BigBL87]

Buy a Maverick over an Mossberg, which will save a few bucks, then walk buy the Savage and buy a CZ bolt .22.

I'm actually starting to consider the Maverick. My primary use is going to be home defense and probably some hand thrown/cheap thrower thrown clays. I was going with a Mossberg mainly due to the 18.5 & 28 inch barrel combo available. I like the idea of the tang safety too but its not essential since I'm right handed. I suppose with the 18.5" informal clays would be doable. Going with the Maverick would save me nearly the price of a Mosin...

 

[SleazyRider]

I'm feelin' you, BigBL87, as we're in the middle of a giant renovation project here, and my firearms budget has taken a major hit. Good timing considering the ammo shortage, though.

My vote is to bypass the Mosin for now and stick to your plan, which makes a lot of sense to me. ColtPythonElite tuned it up for you, and I agree:

Buy a Maverick over an Mossberg, which will save a few bucks, then walk buy the Savage and buy a CZ bolt .22.

The Maverick 88 is a very fine shotgun, and one that I've coveted ever since handling my buddy's a few years ago. It left me wondering how they can produce such a firearm for the price. And I'm thinkin' you'll be shooting a .22 a lot more than you would a Mosin---heck, you don't even have to clean it between uses (assuming you're not using Remington Thunderbolts). If the CZ bolt that ColtPython suggested is out of the question, you might also have a peek at the new Ruger American Rimfire bolt. Bolt guns are cool, and at the same time will address your penchant for WW2 history to some degree.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I have owned a Savage Mark II for many years and it's an excellent rifle IMO. I bought before the Accutrigger was available so now the Mark II w/Accutrigger is even better. I recently bought a heavy barrel Savage in .22LR that's a great target rifle.

I also own and shoot a Mosin Nagant and while it's a good gun to own I shoot the Mark II much more than the Mosin.

 

[skeptical_in_Ohio]

Hi all-

When I saw more than one post about .22LR vs 7.62X54 and cost, I got curious. True .22LR is difficult to find at reasonable prices right now, but through the wonder of math (gee I hope I did mine right):

7.62X54 R - currently at AIM Surplus - $84.95 for 440 rounds - approx 19.31 cents/round.

22LR - currently hard to find unless you are willing to pay what would have been inconceivable two years ago, but currently per one ad in Illinois on Armslist - $45 for 525 rounds - approx 8.57 cents/round. Even at the $50/500 price I see a lot of that's 10 cents/round.

Just for fun, found a nice looking rifle with a scope (though not a MKII Savage, and since other than MKII I don't know my Savages I can't speak to its recency though it looks pretty unused from the pic) for an ask of $150. That's getting down to Mosin territory.

I own a Mosin, and they are a blast (pun intended). This said, when I think of all the bad habits and flinches one would likely learn if that beast were one's first rifle, the .22LR option has a lot of appeal, even in the face of currently shocking .22LR prices/low availability, and .22LR will almost certainly return to a semblance of normal sometime.

 

[BigBL87]

Ya, and the kicker for me is I'd like to avoid the corrosive surplus ammo. I definitely realize that the 22lr will be cheaper to shoot in the long run, I'm just not sure how often I'll actually get to shoot it whether its a Mosin or Savage (I'm open to other 22lrs, the MKII just seems to be one of the better values from my research). If I knew Mosin prices would stay where they are for a good while I'd wait on it for sure, but I've looked at the prices of past milsurps and its crazy how much they go up. Ultimately, thats the whole reaaon I asked because I'm sure there are aspects I haven't considered yet.

 

[LAGS]

I am a BIG Fan of the Mosin Nagant,
But I have to say, do like I did 40 years ago, and go for the 22Lr.
You will get more practice with the 22, and you can hunt Bunnies with it or use it as a Survival gun.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

Ain't no need to avoid corrosive ammo in a Mosin. Anything you buy today has already seen corrosive ammo. Just clean it after shooting.

 

[Old Shooter]

Since you are a new shooter I would get the 22 first. Learn the basics of marksmanship without the heavier muzzle blast and recoil of the Mosin. With a 22 you can have a 100 round practice session comfortably with lower noise and not getting hammered by the recoil which may induce a tendency to flinch. With a 22 you can walk up and see what and where you hit the target, with the Mosin the target may not be there anymore!

But, keep saving up and get that Mosin as soon as you can afford it, they are a lot of fun and you can always wonder just where that weapon was used in the past (Stalingrad, Germany, ?)

 

[Cee Zee]

I'd suggest getting the .22 first. You won't have the distraction of the noise and the recoil that often teaches people bad habits if they're new to shooting. Even the slightest flinch (unnoticeable except in how accurate you shoot) can cause you to be off target. And the noise of a MN is pretty high especially if you happen to get a carbine. I would suggest not getting a carbine even if you do decide on the MN.

I have a bunch of nice .22's. My MkII is the most accurate one I own even though it is not the most expensive. For a lifetime rifle I'd suggest saving for a CZ though. They are very nice and often more accurate than the MkII's out in the world.

Both rifles can be lots of fun. If you think you will be able to afford the Savage in the near future I might get the MN and wait just because of the ammo situation. But in normal times I'd suggest getting the .22 first. Everyone should learn good habits by starting with a .22.

BTW if you get a Remington 870 Express you can get another barrel for shooting clays or bird hunting etc.. I'd also suggest getting a higher capacity version of whatever shotgun you get if the primary use is HD. Every round helps.

You might also check out the various Norinco built shotguns. The NEF Pardner Protector is a great shotgun for less than $200. I've seen them as low as $165. It isn't that much of a savings over the Maverick or Mossberg but it's a solid shotgun and you can get extra barrels for them but it's a hassle. Better just to get two shotguns really.

You really won't go too far wrong either way you go with the rifles or the shotgun. Features are important in the shotgun selection. You'll likely have that shotgun a long time so get the one you really like. The quality isn't that different between them or the 870's either for that matter. You may wish you had bought the one with the tang safety for example. It's a matter of features and fit too. Shotguns need to fit your body well. Handle anything you might want and compare how they feel. Try to find a place where you can compare them side by side. Look up some info on shotgun fitting and you might come out way ahead. You wouldn't need to actually have one fitted. Just buy the one that fits best. That's why I have an 870 really. I had a Mossberg too but I gave it to my daughter.

 

[fpgt72]

You say you are a big WWII history buff, and my suggestion is going to be just how big of a history buff are you? If you are going to shoot this gun once every 6 months and then look at it the rest of the time....that is one thing. If you are going to shoot it every weekend that CAN be another thing.

I am going to say that you and your interests are going to have to make this call. I get great joy out of my historic guns....some have not been shot in 50 years. The history of the gun, markings, all of that is of great interest to me....if you fall into that category look to the vintage rifle, finding out all you can about them is almost as much fun as shooting them.

And don't be afraid of corrosive in a bolt rifle....just clean it correctly and you will have nothing to worry about.

 

[BCRider]

Cleaning the barrel of the corrosive fouling after a day of shooting takes at MOST 7 to 8 minutes. It's dead simple.

And SKS or SVT on the other hand......

The guys do make very good points on both the cost and learning you'd get from a .22 as your first rifle. And realistically the cost of the Mosins will only rise maybe another $20 to $30 dollars if you were to go with a .22 now and put off the Mosin for even up to a year.

In the meantime as skeptical posted above even with the idiotic hoarding crunch on at the moment it's still cheaper to shoot .22 than surplus 7.62.

Mate up a .22 with one of the rimfire flip up and resettable steel targets from Caldwell along with some paper and you'll have hours of plinking and precision practice for cheap.

I was shooting my BTV/Simmon combo at the little Caldwell target off bags at 100 yards about two weeks ago. The air at the time was dead calm so it was just a case of finding the setting then plink away to the steady sound of distant "DING!"s and watch the steel move. But on an open and breezy area there would be a lot of good practice with such a target for reading and compensating for wind and building up one's precision shooting skills. Yep, there's much that could be achieved with a nice rimfire rifle and scope setup.

Oh, I chose the thumbhole BTV because the high comb of this style stock puts my face up where it needs to be to line up with the scope. I've never figured out why so many rifles that are clearly intended for use with scopes by the fact they don't come with iron sights insist on being stocked with low rise combs that result in only a "chin weld" when the head is lifted to line up with a scope.

My original plan was to simply find one of the cheap plain wood Mk II's and modify it by cutting away part of the stock and re-install it on adjustable threaded rod pillars to get a proper comb height. Another option would be a plastic stocked version with a molded over sheet Kydex riser comb. But I fell in love with the look and feel of the laminate thumbhole stock. These other budget mods would be more than suitable though.

 

[Agsalaska]

I would normally suggest the .22lr over just about anything. But the whole ammo thing....

The Mosin is cool. I guess.

 

[Dave Bulla]

You could always get a 17 rimfire. I can find the ammo for it any day of the week around here but I have not seen 22's for about two months and if it's in small boxes, the store only lets you buy 100 rounds at a time. I can go through 100 rounds pretty quick even when shooting a single shot.

 

[Skribs]

Personally, I don't like shooting .22s, so I'd definitely vote Mosin!

 

[frankenstein406]

22 so you can do some small game hunting.

 

[Bud Tugly]

If you're brand new to firearms, starting out with guns with heavy recoil and muzzle blast may seem the macho way to go but it's an open invitation to developing a flinch. It can happen to anyone and will destroy your accuracy and is difficult to eliminate.

The Maverick or Mossberg are good choices but if the primary use is going to be HD then you need to shoot it enough that you can handle it at 3am in pitch dankness while half asleep, and that means lots. Start with light target loads and gradually move up to the heavier loads as you get comfortable with it.

It's hard to beat a .22 for just plain fun and learning the basics of marksmanship. As has been said, the ammo is cheap (and will get cheaper soon) and the low noise and recoil will keep you from developing bad habits. Mosin's may be historical and cheap but IMO they're a bad choice as a learner gun for a brand new shooter.