Help Me Decide

[RatDrall]

I'm thinking about picking up a double barrel 12 gauge with short barrels, for general messing around, no specific purpose. I'm worried more about weight and durability than anything else.

I'm looking at either the Stoeger Condor:

http://www.stoegerindustries.com/firearms/stoeger_condor_outback.php

Or their coach gun:

http://www.stoegerindustries.com/firearms/stoeger_coach_guns.php

As far as a single or double trigger, is either design any more reliable?

 

[oneounceload]

You mentioned being concerned with weight and reliability........are you wanting a light gun for ease of carrying, or a heavier gun for recoil minimilization?

Regarding reliability, what volume are you considering? (For a clay target shooter like me, reliability means 90,000 plus without issues; for someone who plays with CAS loads and similar, that might be different)

 

[Dave McCracken]

The Stoegers are OK, but my favorite inexpensive SxS is still the 311.

Double triggers are less finicky than most single trigger systems and would be my pick on any double other than a dedicated target O/U.

 

[RatDrall]

You mentioned being concerned with weight and reliability........are you wanting a light gun for ease of carrying, or a heavier gun for recoil minimilization?

Ease of carry.

Regarding reliability, what volume are you considering? (For a clay target shooter like me, reliability means 90,000 plus without issues; for someone who plays with CAS loads and similar, that might be different)

Not so much volume, I'm just going to shoot rats and empty bottles with this shotgun, but it's also going to be an HD gun for my wife. I need it to be durable to the point where there is nothing to break if it gets dropped and knocked around.

The Stoegers are OK, but my favorite inexpensive SxS is still the 311.

Can I buy one of these new?

Double triggers are less finicky than most single trigger systems and would be my pick on any double other than a dedicated target O/U.

Thanks for the advice. I'm leaning towards the side by side with double triggers, I handled the Outback again and the iron sights are horrible, not much better than a bead, and more to snap off if dropped. The over-under is also a half pound heavier with the same length barrels.

 

[Dave McCracken]

No, but there's over a million old 311s out there.

 

[jlv08]

Another vote for the 311. They are rock solid. I've seen some road hard and put up wet, but never broken.

They can be found if you get out and beat the thickets hard enough.

 

[oneounceload]

311's, and their cousin the Fox/Savage BSE, are fairly rugged but not exactly lightweight for ease of carry. An older AyA made for Sears or used Ugartechea are typically lighter and easier handling, although they might be more than your budget. They can range from $450 and up to over $1,000 for these - which is cheap for a quality double......

 

[Gordon]

Cheese and Crackers where were you 311 advocates when I suggested it over Foreign junk, and NO I was NOT talking about quality foreign doubles which are no doubt far beyond the ken of a 311 !
Actually the old Baikals were very stout,I don't know about them since early 90s. I think the CZ doubles are a well built low end double. My experiences with Brazilian,and Turksh (lately) "foreign junk"has not been positive! Some Spanish stuff is junk no doubt, but I like Spanish Steel, somewhat. Most low end Italian stuff has been VERY good to me over the years.
Thing is with a clean 311 is that it is SERVICEABLE at least at this time. Try getting a Boito repaired!

 

[oneounceload]

I recently had my Savage/Fox BSE serviced due to various issues and I was fortunate that my old, retired smith has a 2500 sf warehouse full of parts for old guns of all sorts. He had to do some machining to keep the gun from opening and misfiring. This gun does NOT have a lot (per my definition) of rounds through it - much less than 10,000, most likely less than 4-5,000.

Point being, "robust", "stout", etc., are nice to describe its 2x4 handling characteristics, but do not describe its longevity capabilities.............and, IMO, that extends to the other cheap brands.

YMMV

 

[jlv08]

I have to agree that the Baikals (sp?) are well built shotguns and would be an excellent option IMHO.

The problem is that you just don't see them often.

 

[evbutler462]

If Stoeger would fix the 12 lb trigger pulls on theri doubles, they'd be my pick. I sold mine a few weeks ago and bought another 311. I could have fooled with the triggers or had a gunsmith do it, but I sold it rather than fix it.

The 311 still sells used for more than the Stoeger NIB.

 

[oldpuppymax]

Sorry to open this can of worms, but for home defense, why not a pump with 18" barrel? 5 or 6 rounds beat the heck out of two.