Help me pick a bolt action....

[kotengu]

I've been thinking about working up a bolt action, and it will probably start out with one of the major three (Remington 700, Winchester M70, or Savage 10) in .308.

I understand the winchester has the "controlled round" feeding while the remington has a push fee system, but what are the other differences of the three actions? Which one do you prefer and why ? What are the pros/cons of each?

 

[Keith]

None of those are short actions designed for the .308.

Look at a Model 7.

Keith

 

[yzguy]

the New savages are called short actions, but others have said they are not as short as other makers "short" action....

I like my FP-10 in .308

 

[Brian Williams]

All three of the above mentioned Manufacturers produce their rifles in a short action that the 308 will fit very nicely. If you want a more compact rifle look at either the Rem model 7 or the Win mod 70 compact classic or the Ruger compact. The Browning light Hunter is great also.


If you are looking for a rifle more for a range gun the short action version of any of the above would be just great for starters.


My preference is the Win Model 70 Compact Classic, but mine is in 7mm-08. They can be had in 308.

I like the controlled round feed and it is very lightweight and still shoots 1.25 MOA. Mine has a Leupold 3x9 compact scope on it in Leupold 2 piece rings with butler creek covers. The only other thing is a Quick adjust sling and 5 rounds.

 

[cordex]

I've got to suggest the Savage.
At least try out the Accu-Trigger and compare it to the pulls on the other rifles. Sure, you could get a pull as good or better on another rifle, but you're going to pay a heckuva lot more.
For the money (or even twice the money), Savage is one of the best buys out there. Accurate, inexpensive and an all-around good gun. The only complaint I have is that the bolt throw isn't as smooth as it could be and it is rather heavy, but accuracy is superb.

 

[ocabj]

Get the Savage. You should be able to get it for under $500. Get the Bell & Carlson Duramaxx stock for $90 if factory stock annoys you. Be sure to get the proper bases for the Accutrigger version of the 10FP (Accutrigger has a round receiver as opposed to the flat receiver on the non-Accutrigger 10FPs).

You will get 1" groups or better with match ammo, and should be able to get .5" and under with handloads. I'm still working up some loads with 168gr SMK and Varget and I am getting about 1/4" center to center on 5 shot groups.

And yes, the Accutrigger is insane. Whenever I bring my Savage and a couple other guns to the range, shooting the Savage and then going to another one of my rifles makes me realize how much improvement my other triggers could use.

 

[Jaywalker]

kotengu,

Are you buying a rifle and working up loads, or are you buying an action and building a rifle?

Jaywalker

 

[Master Blaster]

I just went through the decision process you are now facing. I wanted something tactical, and excellent for target shooting as well.

I picked the savage 10fp LE2 26" barrel with the accutrigger.

I was able to get it for $410 with shipping through my gun club
FFL holder (his wholesale cost). I compared it to the remington PSS which my local store had, before ordering. The remington was nice, except the trigger which was horrible, the gent at the shop who owns one offered to order a timney trigger for only $85 (their cost). the rem was $890, my FFL could order it for $810. The stock was much nicer on the rem. (macmillian?) the stock on the savage was ok free floated and pillar bedded, the trigger was of course much nicer on the savage (accutrigger).

I can get any nice stock I want for under $300 for the savage. The savage shoots as well or better than the remington from reports I have heard.

The fit and finish was better on the savage!!! especially the bolt smoothness. The Savage has an oversize bolt handle (I like), which would be another $100 to have smithed on a rem(guess).

The savage is a better value, and may be more accurate, it also had a 26" heavy barrel (could have ordered 20"), the rem came with a 20".

 

[Detritus]

excuse the slight rant, and it's length.

Maybe i missed an earlier post that explained this and the others have not. But most of the answers so far will realted to your wants/needs/etc ONLY if you are wanting a varmint/tactical/target (let's just simplify adn call it "precision") type gun. if on the other hand you are looking for a lighter weight non-"precision" rig the savage is NOT the way to go (the non-target model Savages do not have the accu-trigger yet).


now if you ARE looking for a "precision" gun, which is what the rest of this reply is going to assume, then most emphaticly(sp?) YES GET THE SAVAGE!!!!!!! Savage has steadily IMPROVED their products over the past 10 years, in fact the only remaining real gripe i've seen (since the accu-trigger hit the streets) is that the "factory" synthetic stock is STILL a flimsy willow wand like, POS. and with Choate, McMillan, as well as B&C, and a company called "stockade" (best deal out there for a savage stock, more on them in sec.) making aftermarket units to replace the "black disaster" you can easily and cheaply have a gun that will most likely shoot as well or better than as you;re ever gonna need to.

unless you're gonna go "custom" remington and winchester are no longer even in the same league, esp in light of the amount of money you'd have to shell out to get teh same results as with a savage. i could rant and point, and piss off a whole bunch of "rem 700 is the basis for M-40A(whatever it's up to) and M-24 so it must be the best" folks. but i won't, mainly because that's not what YOU need to know to make this decision... (BTW on a target gun in .308 "controled round feed" is mainly a gimmick, you're likely to never notice a difference)

to sum up the "tactical/target gun based on a Savage" Vs "same built on other US made factory rifles" it will take less time, money, and effort to make the savage shoot to whatever level you're wanting.PERIOD

to make the Savage (gonna assume 10FP in .308) into a usable and highly accurate gun, the required actions are.. Buy basic model 10FP for $500 or less (or if you want a 26" tube buy the 10FP-LE2 for a $10-20 more) then go to either here at Lock stock and barrel or contact Sharp Shoter Supply for a catalog and get a new stock (SSS has slightly better prices, adn they are the same exact stock, as in the "stockade" name is either on the box or on the stock when a unit from SSS arives at your home), in fact regardless of who you get a stock from request a catlog from SharpShooter b/c they are pretty much THE source for the best add-on and improvement parts for Savage rifles.
at this point you simply mount your optics of choice in the mounts of your choice (figuring you'll use the money saved by getting the savage to buy better mounts/optics). this will be good enough to start. shoot the thing till you know it like the back of your hand.

other items that might be of use or interest are the SSS Recoil lug, and the oversize bolt knob they sell.

Ok i'll shut up now as for why i'm so hyper about savage right now and know WAY too much about the after market stuff, well i've been planning a winter project of building a savage into something resembling the "project Ghost Dancer" rifles over on Snipershide.com, so i've been a little TOO immersed in this particular subject of late.

if you;d like for me to share what i;ve come across in teh above planning, just PM or E-mail me.

sorry if i went overboard.

Good luck

 

[Art Eatman]

kotengu, whatcha gonna do with it? Hunt? Competition target? "Just" paper? Other?

Art

 

[kotengu]

This would be primarily a "precision" rifle - used in competition, hunting, and target shooting. I shoot highpower and long-range right now with a "space gun" and am looking for something similar but simpler and maybe a little lighter.

It would need to have a heavy barrel (maybe 24" to 26"), and a custom barrel mounted to an existing action isn't out of the question. I would like a stock something like the McMillan A-3 - can take tons of abuse, can be made to fit me (cheekpiece height and LOP), but once it does I don't want something that can be adjusted "in the field" - simpler is better. It will have optics on it (probably a Leupold M3 3.5-10x40 mildot), more than likely mounted on a 20 MOA tapered base. It must shoot at least as well as my "space gun" (about 3/4 MOA average), 1/2 MOA would be preferred (with handloads, of course).

I've been told I might want to take a look at the long actions because of some of the heavy loads I use that are longer than mag length, but I don't know the pros/cons of using a long over a short action - any opinions?

I feel pretty good with choosing through all the components but the actions - it seems like most people are die hard fans of one of the above three, but when you ask "WHY?" they can't tell me much. Thanks for the replies so far - keep 'em coming, and if you can narrow the focuse to just the pros and cons of the actions.

Matt

 

[Detritus]

a custom barrel mounted to an existing action isn't out of the question.

that changes EVERYTHING!! lol

got a budget limit to stay under??

if your budget would allow, you might want to check out

www.hdrifle.com
and
www.georgiaprecision.com/

personally i'd lean toward HD myself, if i were to get a rifle built up.


basicly if there is a modification listed on the HD site then THAT (like the bolt knob mod) was most likely in response to a problem in the design.

My earlier post was written under the assumption that you were looking to meet your conditions using an as, or near to as, factory build rifle. under THOSE condtions the Savage is teh way to go. if a true fromt eh ground up custom is a possibility, go with a 700 from a prominent riflesmith.

 

[kotengu]

Unfortunately, budget is ALWAYS a consideration - however, if the cost can be justified (ie: greater performance or better meeting of my needs) it is well worth it to me to spend a little more up front instead of being unhappy with a mediocre rifle, still being out a good amount of scratch, and not being able to recoup my unwise investment in order to get what I should have bought in the first place.

That's what I'm trying to figure out - at what point would I be shelling out big bucks for stuff that really doesn't help me all that much. I'm very much a "utility" kind of guy and in the form vs. function debate I don't think form even exists (unless of course we're talking ergonomics). That's sort of why the Savage interests me - it seems to be almost the Glock of bolt actions (not real pretty or fancy, but does the job well), and I'm a big Glock fan. While buying quality is never a bad idea, overpaying because of a name IS.

I understand the weakness of the factory stock (which would have to be replaced), and that the bolt travel can be a little gravelly, but the trigger problem seems to have been addressed. What have you heard about the factory (heavy) barrels? I've heard they are fairly accurate, but how are they for fouling and barrel life? Any other "faults" that people have found with the Savages?

 

[Chuck from arkansaw]

Check out the C.Z. 550 at http://www.cz-usa.com/_p/p02.php
It is a clasic square bridge mauser action and will last several lifetimes. It has the original controlled feed, claw extractor, detachable magazine, the hammer forged barrels are fantastic, and you won't find a single set trigger on any of the guns you were considering. I own a 527 in hornet, and a 452 American in lr. They are both outstanding. You can get a good idea of retail prices on Auctionarms or gunbroker.com. It is one of the few times when you will be able to use the words bargain and value in the same sentence.

 

[4 eyed six shooter]

If any of you are interested in an accuracy job on your Savage Bolt Rifles, contact me about pricing. I true the front of the receiver, the threads in the action, the bolt face and smooth up the bolt travel. A larger recoil lug and bedding are also available. Top quality work for a reasonable price.
Good shooting, John K

 

[Braz]

The Savages are nice,

Here's my 1st group at 100 yrds with factory match ammo, after sight in without the Accu-trigger.

http://www.spydermagazine.com/files/target.gif

 

[JShirley]

Okay. My suggestions:

trade your space gun for my unfired Rem 700 PSS. (That'll leave you with two FAL's, right?)

Many have said over the last few years that Remington should be the route that serious shooters go, if for no other reason than there are a lot more products oriented toward them. (This may be changing.)

Good luck with your decision.

John

 

[kotengu]

Nah - the "spacegun" IS the #2 FAL, so getting rid of it would just leave me with the carbine.

That's kind of the idea, though - I'm trying to see if I can do what i do with the FAL, but simpler and lighter. Tell me about your PSS........

 

[Deep Blue]

Dude, I've got a Savage. Its in .308. With a bipod. And a ridiculously overpowered Simmons 8-32X scope. And I live within 10 minutes of you.

Feel free to stop by and fondle it if you like. It'll give you an idea if you'll like the design or not.