Help! Rem 1858 and BP storage questions

[packarat]

I have to say that out of the three handguns I own the Pietta Remington 1858 .44 is by far the most fun. I took a couple of buddies out to shoot my other guns and to break this one in. I was loading it with 30 grains of Pyrodex and a .451 ball. I still can't get over the flame shooting out of the barrel or the cloud of smoke. The whole experience was just awesome.

When I got back home I took the gun apart and gave it it's bath. When reassembling I installed the trigger spring upside down, but realized my mistake and installed it correctly. Now when I go to cock the hammer it will not turn the cylinder, most of the time, unless I help with the motion. I think I may have flattened out the spring when I installed it incorrectly. Does this sound right? My main question is, can I re-shape the spring or should I just purchase a replacement?

I do have some other general questions about BP in general. Is it safe or will it affect Pyrodex if I store it in the garage during the summer? Where I'm from it can reach 110F degrees and possibly hotter in the garage. Will caps also be safe in the same environment? How about the gun in general, will it be ok or should I move it indoors to a cooler area?

I would like to keep this stuff away from our living area since I have kids. Right now all of my firearms, BP, caps, etc are under lock and key in the garage. I do plan on buying a safe for the bedroom to store my other two cartridge guns. Should I look to buying a bigger safe to also store the BP gun, powder and caps?

Sorry this is so long, I didn't want to post multiple threads .

 

[22LongRifle]

It shouldn't be a problem. I stored about three pounds of 4F, 3F, and 2F for about four years in my garage and I shot it this winter with no ill effects. Same for about 500 caps.

Jerry

 

[mykeal]

bp storage

The main issue with storing bp is humidity. Keep your powder dry (seems silly to say, but sometimes we take that for granted and forget that temperature changes can result in condensation).

Regarding safety: 100 degree (plus) ambient temperatures are not unsafe. Wood boxes are better than metal or plastic, but all are safe containers at those temperatures. Frankly, the manufacturer's container is just fine, doubly so if placed in another box. This is true for powder and caps.

One thing to keep in mind, however: IF there is a fire or some other mechanism that would set the powder off, the wood box is the worst container. It makes splinters when exploded from the inside. Very, very dangerous and damaging. Sheet metal and plastic will rip open but not shred into pieces that become dangerous projectiles. So IF you have a fire and are using a wood box, stay away until it goes.

Failure to properly rotate the cylinder is not likely caused by a faulty trigger bolt spring. It is also unlikely that assembling the gun with the spring upside down would damage it.

The cylinder is rotated by the hand moving upward as the hammer is pulled back. The hand is pushed forward to engage the notches on the back of the cylinder by the hand spring against the back of the channel in which the hand moves. Your problem is more likely caused by the hand/hand spring assembly being improperly installed.

The above assumes that the cylinder does rotate freely in the half cock position and can be moved by hand into battery without undue force. If not, then the issue is likely the bolt not fully retracting when the hammer is pulled back into half cock.You should be able to feel the drag on the cylinder when you rotate it by hand if this is the problem. Look carefully at the position of the ends of the bolt spring to see that they are resting in the proper places; pull the hammer back slowly and watch to see that the spring causes the bolt to rotate out of the notch in the frame as you do so.

 

[Tommygunn]

Now when I go to cock the hammer it will not turn the cylinder, most of the time, unless I help with the motion.

Does it make a difference if you aim the revolver down? If it works this way, but doesn't work horizontally, the handspring is broken, and you need a new one -- which really means you need a new "hand," or "pawl" as it is sometimes called. Be prepared for a bit of filing, since it needs to be handfit to the gun. A new one may be too long and engage the ratchet before the bolt releases the cylinder.

It is possible there is an improper installation as an earlier poster speculated.

It is not usually too hard to find out what is wrong with a SA gun ... but without seeing it and examining it, sometimes, you can only guess, and there can occassionally be more than one reason why such a revolver fails to work right.
Good luck with it.

 

[jeep-2]

From the thread below-- NY BP storage laws
One thing to keep in mind, however: IF there is a fire or some other mechanism that would set the powder off, the wood box is the worst container. It makes splinters when exploded from the inside. Very, very dangerous and damaging. Sheet metal and plastic will rip open but not shred into pieces that become dangerous projectiles. So IF you have a fire and are using a wood box, stay away until it goes.

(i) The black powder shall be either in the original shipping canisters, powder horns, powder flasks or as prepared charges in plastic or paper tubes. Such containers shall be kept in locked boxes constructed of wood at least three-quarters inch nominal thickness. Handles shall be provided on each end or a single handle shall be centered on the top of each such box for quick removal in case of any emergency.

they must think it's better to get a few wood splinters in you than make a bomb out of steel.

 

[DaveP (UK)]

UK BP storage regs: when these were brought in there was a grace period to use up existing stocks as they didnt want people to do dangerous stuff like decanting.
No metal containers. No containers over 500grammes. Use manufacturers original plastic containers. Containers to be stored in a locked plywood box constructed to have 30 minute fire resistance.

The idea is that if there is a fire and the powder goes up it wont be in contained in anything that could function as a pressure vessel. It'll be a low energy explosion, a pop not a BANG

All the same, I used to be able to keep it under the stairs, easy to grab if fleeing a house fire. And the local fire brigade knew were it was too.
Now its in the attic so that it does not threaten an escape route, and I for one won't be going up after it

 

[mykeal]

Wood vs Metal vs Plastic storage boxes

The NY BP storage laws are not based on any common sense that I'm aware of, as evidenced by the incredibly nonsensical rules regarding transportation.

IF the powder inside the container is loose and has lots of room for expanding gas, then it will likely go poof and not bang, and the wooden box will not splinter. In that case the wood is better insulation from an outside fire than sheet metal or plastic and might actually last longer. However, wood also burns, so relying on it's insulating properties and taking for granted that the powder will thus not detonate is just not sensible. One point in favor of wood is that it will attenuate the pressure wave from the detonation (turning the wood fibers into splinter projectiles takes energy) but human flesh will react to either with the same amount of dislike, so there's no real advantage.

A sheet metal box will not "become a bomb"; if the powder detonates the box will rip open but not shatter. The resulting pressure wave from the detonation will not be attenuated, but there will be no shrapnel. Not good if you're next to it but otherwise better than filling the air with hot, sharp pieces of metal (or wood). A cast or forged metal box is a different story: that's a bomb with big time shrapnel.

There are too many different kinds of plastic to generalize about properties when considering fire protection. If properly designed a plastic box is the best compromise. If simply bought off the local Wal-Mart shelf without knowledge of how it will react to heat, etc. it's a crap shoot.

I do not conclude with any kind of recommendation. My stuff is stored in it's original containers; if it was good enough for their warehouse (and insurance company) it's good enough for me. The containers are individually stored in a sheet metal cabinet, although I do sometimes temporarily house the powder I'm using in a plywood cabinet. Well away from the house. Well, well away.

 

[DaveP (UK)]

Ah well, the thing about our regs is that no one you have ever spoken to ever knows anyone who has been consulted by the rule makers. Some civil servant feels the need to justify his job, and hey presto!!!
We'd been rattling along quite happily, with no domestic BP storage related incidents on record buty now we have to do it the safe way
We only narrowly escaped a situation where shooters powders would have had to be kept in a reinforced underground bunker situated so far from buildings and roads that virtually no one would be able to qualify.
Perhaps I see the plan...

Anyway I checked the wording:
...Containers must be of a material such that, in the event of a fire do not provide additional containment, increasing the explosive force of any deflagration. Plastic/polythene or paper/cloth containers will be suitable...

Now where did I put that potato sack?

 

[DaveP (UK)]

Packarat: Sorry, didnt intend to hijack your thread!
By trigger spring do you mean the spring that you see after removing the trigger guard?
If so, well you might have damaged it but I wouldnt expect this spring to cause the problem you seem to be describing. Is the cylinder bolt operating normally, releasing the cylinder at half cock and locking up at full cock with the cylinder properly aligned with the barrel. If it isnt then strange things can happen because the entire mechanism gets "out of step". One of the possible causes of this is the bolt itself. The upper end has two arms and the distance between them is crucial. Too far apart and the bolt becomes too stiff for the spring to move it. Too close together and it wont engage with the lugs on the side of the hammer that control it. Could you have deformed this part during your struggle? Worth thinking about if the hand spring is intact (but they are prone to sudden failure).
Hope this helps - Good Luck with it!

 

[packarat]

Finally getting back to my thread

Thanks to everyone for the replies.

Tommygunn you were right on, if I aimed straight down the cylinder cycled. Tonight I took it apart and bent the pawl spring out a bit and re-assembled, problem solved. I now think I may have a new issue.

The timing used to be perfect. The "cylinder stop" would fall right in the "square cylinder stop hole". Now, during the action, the cylinder stop pops up just before the square and is creating a mark. I have a respectable cylinder mark on my Ruger so I'm not worried about the appearance. It just used to lock up so beautifully before I actually shot it I think I'm spoiled. Is there any way I can correct this, or am I just spoiled and paranoid?