Help! Small Hands, Smaller Budget : Llama Micromax .380?

[horge]

Hi,

Can anyone offer experiences/ recommendations regarding a small Spanish .380 ACP, the Llama Micromax III AC?

I live in the Philippines, where gun laws are even more oppressive, and the need for stiff personal self-defense is certainly no less than anywhere else in the world.

I have small hands and I am also of modest means.

The choices before me seem to be either: local manufactures by Armscor or by Twin Pines (the outfit that manufactured the recently-ended run of Rock Island Armory M1911's). Their merchandise is commonly chambered in .45 ACP, which means the grip size almost always works against my small hands...

...or affordable imports including the Bersa Thunder and the Llama Micromax in .380 ACP. Of all the pistols I've had the opportunity to handle, the Micromax sat the most comfortably in my hand. The Bersa is not too far behind. If not for the much higher price tag, the Kahr MK9 would be on my wishlist --with the finger extension on the mag, it sat almost as nicely in my hand as the Llama.

However...
I've heard many stories about the Spanish steel in the Llama being soft, else being badly-machined. Add to this the deplorable lack of ANY local warranty whatsoever on Llama or Bersa, and you might understand my hesitation to buy them.

Armscor offers a fairly decent warranty. All I've spoken to here, pronounce them reliable with FMJ once broken in (and with a little polishing, reliable with JHP). but again, even with thinner grips on their compact 1911's, it would still be less than a natural fit for my hand.

PTCFOR's (our equivalent of your CCW permits) are heavily restricted, but I feel that if I'm going to choose a handgun, I might as well choose one that I'd easily carry if I could.

So.... anyone have any dirt on the Llama Micromax .380?


Thanks for any help,
horge

 

[slh02]

Sorry I can't help with the llama because I have never handled or fired one but I will vote for the Bersa Thunder .380. I just picked one up this week and although I have not had a chance to fire it yet here are my initial observations:

-It is very well put together for its price. The slide to frame fit is excellent and things work as they should.

-This is probably the most politically correct handgun out there. It has a long DA, a manual safety, a magazine disconnect safety AND and key operated internal locking device!!!

-It is quite heavy, weighing nearly as much as my walther p99 despite being much smaller. While I personally like the weight, some may find it excessively heavy.

-It was pretty stiff at first, but has loosened up nicely just by racking the slide and flicking the safety on and off a bit.

Well, without firing it yet, that is all I can say. Many people who currently own the Bersa say that they are very reliable and a great value. Unfortunately, the same can not be said about LLama. If you can get them at the same price, I would definitely go with the Bersa.

 

[CWatson]

I have the Llama,but mine is a 32acp late 1980's production version.The metal is not soft.It feeds fmj reliably,jams every couple rounds on hollow points.It has a nice flat profile but I would only use it for plinking.

I also have the Bersa Thunder 380.A much better gun.Feeds reliably both hollow points and fmj.Has much better sights on it also.The recoil on both is very modist and controlable.My wife has never shot the Llama but has shot the Bersa without any controlability problams and she has small hands also.

How common are guns(civilian) in the Philippines?My wife is from Manila,and when her brothers visit us I take them shooting,they had never even held a gun before meeting me.CW

 

[horge]

Thanks for the info. The Llama is indeed much flatter/thinner than the Bersa, hence the better fit for my hand.

Guns aren't really too common in the Philippines, unless you count the lawless.



The Spaniards disarmed most of us from the 1500's onwards, and the United States finished off disarmament at the dawn of the 20th century (Browning's M1911 came out of the difficulty of said disarmament).

Since then, Philippine governments have unrelentingly restricted private, civilian ownership of guns. By law, generally nothing over .22LR for rifles (we don't have a big or medium-game hunting tradition), and nothing over .375 cal for handguns (although 45's are fairly common among those who ARE armed, and a few individuals have fully-licensed M4a1's at home, and with no restriction on magazine capacities, they must be feeling smug).

Law-abiding citizens don't pack, and the underpaid, undertrained, occasionally crooked police and military only show up AFTER the lawless have committed their crimes. I don't like flouting the law (by even considering .45 ACP's), but if the government can't/won't provide the protection I pay them to, I feel I have the right to protect my family.

Sorry. Too much information, perhaps.
I tend to get going when I think about how private citizens like myself are so vulnerable here.

Anyways, I'll look more closely into Bersa 380's, though the Armscor compact 1911 has now moved up a bit on my preference list (the warranty is pretty important, no?). The Armscor's just a tad too heavy and thick, though.

Thanks again for your input, and any more feedback on either the Llama or the Bersa .380 would be deeply appreciated.



horge

 

[tech]

Horge,
No experience with the Bersa but I owned a couple of Llamas one was a micro-max .380. I would go with the Bersa as I have had nothing but problems with the Llamas.

Mike

 

[usnavymasterchief]

I once owned a Llama Micro Max .380 several years ago. The only good thing about it was the way it looked (mini-1911). The feed ramp looked like it was finished with a rat tail file, the nickle plating was peeling in several places, the OEM magazines are really cheap crap. The dam thing never would feed JHP's because of the rough feed ramp which was so rough I was afraid of removing too much metal to make it smooth.
Save your money, the Llama will cause nothing but grief. Look for a used Sig or Glock (.380 export model) you'll be a lot better off in the long run.

 

[clubsoda22]

Bersa an llama are owned by the same company, but bersa just seems to make much better pistols.

I own a bersa thunder .380 in nickle. Every person who has shot it has been impressed. Big thumbs up on the bersa.

 

[coldshot03/04]

I have the Llama MiniMax 45cal I really dont like this gun.

 

[horge]

Thanks, everyone.
Looks like the Llama's next to dead on my list.
Tsk! Such a pleasing fit and appearance gone to waste.


I'll try to find a nice deal on a Bersa a couple of weeks from now.
But if I can't find even a modest warranty to go with it,
I just might wind up going with a local .45 compact.

Ugh.