Help! Winchester M70

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rhm

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Howdy,
I just got home to a Winchester Model 70 I had purchased recently. The seller described it as a Model 70 Classic, which told me it was a post-1994 controlled round-push feed. Looking at the bolt, I'm having my doubts since I don't have my other M70 to compare it to. Can anyone tell me what year my M70 was made with serial number G23582XX? I'm sure hoping it is a CRPF...I only bought it because I wanted a Model 70 to build up that wasn't a push feed. Thanks!
-R
 
I cant tell by serial #

But, if you look at the bolt, the controlled feed modles have a big claw-type extractor, like a Mauser.
 
The Classic is not the Controlled Round Push Feed. CRPF was developed for the Winchester Short Magnums, which did not feed well with the classic Mauser non-rotating claw. The CRPF has a spring-loaded rotating extractor, while the Classic and pre-'64 Model 70s have the non-rotating Mauser claw.
 
Vern,
I'm curious, where did you come by that information that the CRPF action was developed for the WSM? That is a tidbit of information I have never heard before. As a Model 70 fan, I really do want to know everything you can tell me about this. I always did wonder why they came up with the CRPF action. Howsomever, my 7mmWSM Classic CRF functions perfectly. My Classic CRF WSSM's feed like $chit through a goose. The WSSM's in the Classic action feed like you have to actually experience it to believe it. Those short and fatties just sort of pop right in there! Possibly you are confusing the Classics with the Kimbers? :D :D :D Anxiously awaiting to be enlightened! :D Good hunting!
 
I'm curious, where did you come by that information that the CRPF action was developed for the WSM? That is a tidbit of information I have never heard before. As a Model 70 fan, I really do want to know everything you can tell me about this. I always did wonder why they came up with the CRPF action. Howsomever, my 7mmWSM Classic CRF functions perfectly. My Classic CRF WSSM's feed like $chit through a goose. The WSSM's in the Classic action feed like you have to actually experience it to believe it. Those short and fatties just sort of pop right in there! Possibly you are confusing the Classics with the Kimbers?

That's what Winchester said when they first brought them out. The super-shorties have to enter the chamber at a steep angle, and the classic claw action sometimes had difficulty.
 
It was my understanding that all post-1994 actions were a controlled round feed rather than just a push feed. Unfortunately, my serial number is out of the range that that site and armscollector.com can provide a date of manufacture on. However, looks like I've got a straight push feed...guess I need to try to find another and pass this one on to someone else. Or, maybe something like a new production Dakota action. I just want a controlled round feed Model 70 when I'm done.
-R
DSCN2692-1.gif
 
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Vern,
You may be correct, I don't know. However, it does seem odd that Winchesters flagship hunting model rifles were, and remained to the bitter end, all Classic CRF actions, WSM or not, whereas the CRPF actions were restricted to varmint rifles and the Wally World el cheapo types. I am currently out of town, however, when I get back home next week, I shall research my collection of Winchester catalogs and see what, if anything, Winchester said about it when they introduced the CRPF action. I will be in touch! Have a great day!
 
rhm,
You are correct, your rifle is a regular push feed Model 70. Winchester produced push feed Model 70's, which were phased out to the CRPF's, right alongside the Classic action CRF, just depends on the model. I don't know what you expect from your rifle, or how you intend to use it. Myself, I'd rather have a push feed Model 70 than a push feed 700, for a hunting rifle!! But, I myself do prefer CRF for hunting rifles. Guess if you feel the same way, when you see the Classic you want, trade it in! Good hunting!
 
Thank you all for your help. I have to correct my previous statement, as it was actually 1992, not 1994, that the CRPF action came into being. Further reading also explains my rifle; on the lower-end rifles like mine, which I believe now is a Stealth Hunter, push feed was made up until the very end. Since I would like a CRF and plan to build this up as my all-around hunting rifle, I think I'm going to go with a Montana Rifle Company barreled action. It won't be a true M70 as I had wanted, but I think it will be an acceptable, and similar, alternative.
-R
 
What you have there looks like a CRPF -- the photo is a little dark. The extractor appears to be inset into the right locking lug, and rotates with the bolt, but cut to capture the rim of the case as it feeds.

If you want a Classic Winchester Model 70, try www.Gunbroker.com.

This is the real McCoy from that site:

Win. Pre 64 Model 70 30-06
GA# 976773158
$789.00
A REAL rifle...the pre-64 standard grade model 70 in 30-06...it,s been shot, hunted and taken care of. My Dad,s deer rifle...he got it after the war...it was new in 1948 (Ser. #94348). He died in 1989 and I got it. It,s all original from the barrel with both front/rear sights to the steel butt plate. Marked on the barrel the way the
Seller: JON
FFL Dealer: No Area Code: 540

Here's a Classic model:
Model 70 Classic Stainless
GA# 976729068
$895.00
NEW IN BOX Winchester Model 70 Classic Stainless. 26 Inch Barrel, Jeweled Bolt, Syn Black Stock, 7mm Rem Mag Cal. All papers Ect. For Only $895.00 Free Shipping In The Lower 48. Ship to FFL Only. No Out Of Country Sales
Seller: SHOOTER SHOP
FFL Dealer: Yes Area Code: 918

This sounds like a CRPF, you'd have to contact the seller:
Model 70 Featherweight
GA# 976754237
$695.00
New in the box Winchester Model 70 Featherweight,308 Win,control feed,blue with wood stock.$25.00 shipping.
Seller: TROY
FFL Dealer: No Area Code: 502
 
rhm,
I don't know if there is a misunderstanding here about semantics, or what, but I will try to explain the differences between the three basic post-64 Model 70 action types. The picture of the bolt face you show, is a standard push feed Model 70. It is NOT a controlled round push feed (CRPF).

The push feed (PF) Model 70 dates back to 1964, when the pre-64 Model 70 was discontinued. This featured the "ring of steel" bolt face with a plunger ejector and the small rotating extractor fitted into the right bolt lug. Some feel this extractor is superior to the 700's little spring extractor.

In about 1994, the Classic action went into regular production. (Although the Classic action was available earlier on a limited basis in Custom Shop rifles and Super Grades). The Classic action is controlled round feed (CRF), resembles the earlier pre-64 action, but is not identical. The CRF Classic action is easily identifiable by the large non-rotating claw extractor and the blade ejector.

In 2003, the controlled round push feed (CRPF) was introduced. This is essentially a modified push feed action. The ring of steel is relieved along the bottom of the bolt face, flush with the bolt face. This allows a cartridge to feed UP from the magazine, flush with the bolt face, and the rim of the cartridge to slip up behind the extractor, thus allowing for controlled round feed, rather than a push feed where the cartridge is pushed into the bolt face and the extractor snaps over the rim when the action is closed. Also the plunger ejector is replaced with a blade ejector, and thus the bolt face has a slot for the blade ejector right about in the same position as the plunger ejector would be on a push feed. The same rotating extractor is used as in the standard push feed model.

Winchester claims that the CRPF action allows for a controlled round feed action, that will still single-feed a shell directly into the chamber. This in itself is somewhat of a mystery to me, as my older Classics (mid 1990's production), which are a 7mmRM and a 300 Weatherby, allow a cartridge to be slid directly into the chamber by hand, the bolt closed on it, and the extractor will snap over the rim. However, when I got my first WSM in a Classic action, the bolt could not be closed on a shell in the chamber, unless I used an old trick to get the extractor to snap over. Late production WSM's and WSSM's that have the upgraded machined steel extractor, I can't even get the old trick to work, because the newer extractor is stiffer, apparently. I'm not certain as to why the claw extractor on a Classic CRF action won't allow single-feeding with WSM's, but it may be the fact that the rim on a WSM is .535" in diameter, while a standard magnum caliber has a rim diameter of .532", I believe. I think it is much ado over nothing, except it does reduce the overall cartridge capacity of the rifle by one, if all cartridges must be fed from the magazine. As far as I am aware, this single-feeding issue with Classic actions, applies only to the WSM's and WSSM's.

Hope this helps, and doesn't just confuse the issue more! :D
 
My photography skills don't show it very well, but this bolt is not cut on the underside to capture the shell rim. My wife wants me to hold onto it, just because she likes how smooth the action is, but I've already got a project rifle for her and need to fund my project now with the resale of this one! It is a smooth action, that's for sure.
-R
 
rhm,

The photo of your boltface does indeed show it to be a pushfeed action, NOT a CRPF action. The Winnie pushfeed action is a very good one. Am presently shooting quite well with one in 1,000 yard competition.

Don
 
Don,
I have no doubts the Winchester push feed is an excellent rifle! I love Winchesters, and have just bought 2 of 3 planned NIB M94s for the three kids my wife and I expect eventually...my contribution to her "hope chest." I have a post-64 M70 .375 H&H that shoots wonderfully, I just was in the dark hog hunting with it once and cycled the action and got a click, missing an opportunity, so I want to be sure I've got a controlled round feed in the future. I'd love to see a picture of your 1000 yard M70 if you get around to posting one.
-R
 
I don't know if there is a misunderstanding here about semantics, or what, but I will try to explain the differences between the three basic post-64 Model 70 action types. The picture of the bolt face you show, is a standard push feed Model 70. It is NOT a controlled round push feed (CRPF).

Right you are, sir! I saved this picture, then used a photo program to enhance it. Now I can see the rim on the bottom of the bolt face and the plunger ejector. It is a push feed.
 
rhm,
Maybe your photography skills aren't great (neither are mine! :D ), but that plunger type ejector on the bolt face stands out very well! It's too bad you need to sell that rifle, push feed Model 70's are actually good rifles, it's just that the Classics generally get all the press! BTW, if the person you bought that rifle from, represented it as a Classic, that is fraudulent. There is a significant difference in value between a Classic and a push-feed. But, perhaps you got a good buy anyhow!
 
He did indeed represent it as a Classic, but I bid and the auction ended before he ever responded to confirm that it was a CRF or CRPF. Live an learn, right? He was a nice guy to deal with and it is in beautiful condition, so I can't really complain. I'm happy with the deal I got it for, even if it is a push feed Stealth Hunter. I'm hoping to sell it for the $435 that I have invested in it and will post it on Gunsamerica.com soon, I'm sure.
-R
 
rhm,

Ask, and you shall receive.

Don
Win06t1.jpg
 
OK, USSR, now that you have us all lathered up looking at gun porn, why don't you tell us something about that beautiful rifle? :D
 
Hey, you're not old if you can still get lathered.:D

Okay:

Winchester long action pushfeed action
26" fluted Krieger #10MTU contour barrel chambered in .30-06
McMillan A2 stock with adj. buttplate and cheekpiece
Williams one piece steel bottom metal
Jewell trigger
Speed Lock firing pin and spring
Badger 20MOA base and rings
Leupold 6.5-20x50 LR M1 scope
All smithing work done by Jack Krieger

When the nut behind the trigger is tight (and the wind is kind), it will put them into a large dinner plate at 1k. Present load is 61.3gr of RL22 in Norma brass, pushing 190SMK's at 2920fps. Takes about 29MOA from a 100 yard zero to reach 1k. It's definately not your grandpa's .30-06.;)

Don
 
USSR,
Hey, that is a great rifle! I would love to get some trigger time behind that babe! It is really cool to see a M70 set up like that, instead of just another, yawn, 700. Thanks!
 
I know what you mean about "yawn", yeah, nice 700 you got there. I broke out the '06 for F Class competition this year because it is the 100 year anniversary of the cartridge. Here is the 6.5x55 that I shot last year (as received - prior to my applying a teflon/moly finish to it and installing the scope).

Don
6.5Swede1.jpg
 
Don,
Those are both great rifles! I've never been a big 700 fan, personally. I spent quite a bit of time behind the USMC M40A1 and a little behind the A3, but was always a 40X fan. The 700 has just never blown my skirt up, though there are many pretty ones out there. The Model 70, however, just has always had something that kept me interested, maybe it's the desire to own "the rifleman's rifle." I'm hoping that a Montana Rifle Company Model 1999 barreled action won't be too far off of the feel of a true M70. It will definitely be a .30-06 with a heavier barrel, but not quite a full match weight...I'm trying to remember this is my "hunting" project rifle not a match rifle for me or a tactical hoo-yah super squirrelly rifle; already have a few of those. :)
-R
 
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