Help with .308 reloading

[NTWT]

Loading 43.3 grains, IMR 4064, Remington brass 2.008 trimmed, Winchester primer, Hornady 150gr. interlock btsp #3033, once fired brass, shot 23 rounds of which 8 split at neck, some to shoulder. COAL is 2.760. Shot in a Remington Model 700 with 24" barrel. Grouping 1.5 @ 100 yards from bench rest.

 

[jwrowland77]

Sounds like you need to anneal your necks. That's a pretty soft load for 150gr bullet

 

[30Cal]

Agreed. I have run into a batch of brass (same brand, different rifle caliber) that would gave me a good number of splits on the first firing. I annealed them, and the same batch shoots fine now.

Spin the brass with tip of a torch flame at the shoulder. Do this in a dim room. Take them out when they just barely start to glow. Don't let them glow bright. You don't need to tip them into water or anything. I use a whittled down chopstick in the primer hole. You could make it into a much bigger deal, but this works. With a 1" flame on a propane torch, it should be take around 6 seconds each.

 

[gamestalker]

How many times has that brass been loaded?

If it's been loaded at least a couple three times, then you're probably experiencing the result of work hardened necks & shoulders.

Just anneal them and it will eliminate the issue. Annealing isn't as difficult as it seems. I just chuck a piece of brass in the drill using my Lee trimming shell holder, then put the neck / shoulder into the flame at about a 45 degree angle. The idea is to get the necks up to proper annealing temp as quickly as possible, so make sure you adjust the flame and RPM's prior to inserting the brass into the flame. If the brass spends too much time in the flame the result of too much / too slow RPM's, the entire piece of brass will get over heated, which will soften the area near the case head. This is not a good, and can lead to premature case head failure /separations. I recommend practicing on some bottle necks you don't use or want, this will help you get started without ruining good brass in the process.

As soon as the flame starts to produce the first onset of orange on the edges of the flame, I drop the piece of brass into a bowel of water, I actually just dip it in the water. It only take about 15 or 20 seconds from start to finish, including inserting the brass into the shell holder, and removing it. When done correctly, the neck to just slightly below the shoulder will look almost a redish orange color, with a light rainbow effect. If you've ever looked at a piece of Lapua brass, you'll be able to get an idea of what it should look like when properly annealed, Lapua is annealed already.

There are more elaborate methods and tools that can be used, but I've had no problems using this method.

I've experienced the occasional split, it usually presents right at the neck & shoulder junction.

GS

 

[Sunray]

"...8 split at neck, some to shoulder..." That indicates the brass has been fired far more than once. However, it's not the end of the world. Anneal 'em like jwrowland77 says.
Put 'em in a pan of plain tap water, up to just below the shoulder and heat 'em with a regular propane torch until the brass changes colour(not red hot or blue or anything close to that) and tip 'em over. You can see the brass change. Looks like a tiny line crossing it.
Yes, 43.3 grains of IMR 4064 is close to minimum for a 150, the OAL is too short(2.800") and the trim to is 2.005"(2.008" is fine). However, grouping 1.5 @ 100 yards is dandy. Leave everything alone. Rule Number One. It works. Don't fix it.

 

[destroyer85golf]

nn

I read a pretty good article a while ago about the benefits of annealing correctly. Most of the time when you are doing it by just the " starts to glow " you aren't going far enough. or even worse you go to far. there are plenty of people out there that offer a service where they will anneal your brass for you for a minimal fee. If it was me I would just pitch the brass and get a different head stamp. I shoot FC once fired military brass, it seems to hold up pretty well. the only problem that I have had is primer pockets loosening up after about 6 full powered loadings of them. I have heard of people having better luck with Lapua brass, but I cant justify the extra cost. Ill look around for that article and post it here.


http://www.24hourcampfire.com/annealing.html

 

[KB0VSO]

ran the numbers you provided into Load from a disk program.
Load Density Charge Weight Notes
75.0% 35.7gr start OK
80.0% 38.1gr OK
85.0% 40.5gr OK
90.0% 42.8gr OK
91.0% 43.3gr ??
95.5% 45.2gr High Pressure

You are running right up to the max. Before doing any thing to the brass try this.
Back off on the charge to about 41.0 grains and load 3 each increasing the charge
by .5gr up to but no farther than 42.0gn. The cracks in the brass I believe are signs of over pressure + that 700 rem new out of the box will do less than 1" group @100y. Did you start low and work up? Let me know if this salved your problem,

Larry (kb0vso)
Northern Minnesota. USA

 

[Delmar]

Once you get your brass issue sorted out, check your cartridge overall length. Remington is famous for generous freebore, especially in their short action rifles such as the 308. You may be able to knock off a half inch or more in your groups by seating your bullets closer to the lands.

 

[thump_rrr]

ran the numbers you provided into Load from a disk program.
Load Density Charge Weight Notes
75.0% 35.7gr start OK
80.0% 38.1gr OK
85.0% 40.5gr OK
90.0% 42.8gr OK
91.0% 43.3gr ??
95.5% 45.2gr High Pressure

You are running right up to the max. Before doing any thing to the brass try this.
Back off on the charge to about 41.0 grains and load 3 each increasing the charge
by .5gr up to but no farther than 42.0gn. The cracks in the brass I believe are signs of over pressure + that 700 rem new out of the box will do less than 1" group @100y. Did you start low and work up? Let me know if this salved your problem,

Larry (kb0vso)
Northern Minnesota. USA

The Hornady 8th edition manual shows a starting load of 38.4gr and a max load of 44.9gr of IMR 4064 for a 150gr bullet with a C.O.L of 2.735" for the #3033 BTSP.

The Hodgdon online reloading website shows a starting load of 42.9gr and a max load of 46.7 compressed. for a Nosler E-Tip.

 

[jwrowland77]

ran the numbers you provided into Load from a disk program.
Load Density Charge Weight Notes
75.0% 35.7gr start OK
80.0% 38.1gr OK
85.0% 40.5gr OK
90.0% 42.8gr OK
91.0% 43.3gr ??
95.5% 45.2gr High Pressure

You are running right up to the max. Before doing any thing to the brass try this.
Back off on the charge to about 41.0 grains and load 3 each increasing the charge
by .5gr up to but no farther than 42.0gn. The cracks in the brass I believe are signs of over pressure + that 700 rem new out of the box will do less than 1" group @100y. Did you start low and work up? Let me know if this salved your problem,

Larry (kb0vso)
Northern Minnesota. USA

Did you get his case capacity? Not a generic but his case capacity for the cases he was using. That makes a big difference in overpressure or not.

43.3 is nowhere near a max load. Heck, even by your little list here, it's a full two grains from the top.

Remington brass in .308 tends to have the most case capacity. Again, makes a big difference in pressure.

 

[stringnut]

Brass does not split in the neck due to over pressure. The neck has room to expand so that the bullet is released. A chamber with a huge neck area will not even split the neck on the first or second firing. Sizing the brass back down a large amount will work harden it quickly. Then it will need to be annealed as stated by previous replies. Case failures from hight pressures occur in the head area. Loose primer pockets, extractor marks, brass flow etc. If you see any of these you have gone way to far. Up to date testing shows that by the time these signs appear you have exceeded 70,000 psi. These used to be considered guidlines on when to back off a bit. The load is not excessive and is almost identical to the one my wife uses with both Speer and Hornady 150 grain bullets. She has a model 700 youth model and it groups about an inch with most loads. With the necks splitting bullet pull is probably inconsistent which really opens up groups.

 

[KB0VSO]

I agree 100% with you. However I have had new brass split at the neck due to
high pressure. Since nothing was said about the scale - beam or digital his loads could be a mix of + or - ?gr. In addition we do not know were the once fired brass
came from nor if they are all the same head stamp. only 8 out of 23 split. Did he
did he start low and work up or did he just jump; next to the max. Pressures you get in one gun will not be the same in all guns.
There is too little information to make a firm decision as to his problem. I'm telling him to play it safe. He may have read that the most accurate load is going
to be right next to the max. I have not found that to be true.
I still say: Start over back off on the powder charge - work up - play it safe.
After finding his best group he is still getting splits I would check the head stamps
If they are all the same then I would blame the brass. if they are not all the same
I would make a cast of the chamber and the first 4" of the barrel. Or take it to a good gun smith and have him check the barrel.

Larry (kb0vso)

 

[dh1633pm]

I agree with neck splits not being caused by over pressure. My 700 will do well under an inch at 100 yards if I do my part. I would anneal the necks and work my load until I was able to do better. You need a few rounds through before you have a nicely broken in rifle. Keep at it. I use a power drill with a socket on it that holds the brass. The torch is in a vise so I don't set the house ablaze. Then I place the brass in the socket and spin over the fire. I drop it by gravity into a pan til it cools.

 

[RainDodger]

I think annealing would fix it also. I've got some guaranteed-once-fired (military) stuff that I've loaded one time. The second time I'm loading it, I'm not seeing enough neck tension. I think your problem and mine are probably a lack of annealing. I'm just dreading having to fix this problem too, as I've got thousands of sized cases.

 

[KB0VSO]

Did you get his case capacity? Not a generic but his case capacity for the cases he was using. That makes a big difference in overpressure or not.

43.3 is nowhere near a max load. Heck, even by your little list here, it's a full two grains from the top.

Remington brass in .308 tends to have the most case capacity. Again, makes a big difference in pressure.

Did you get his case capacity? Not a generic but his case capacity for the cases he was using

yes