Help with Luger history please...

[King Red]

I was given a German Luger as a graduation gift a few days ago. The finish is about 90% (slight holster wear on edges) and all the parts including internals have matching numbers (83). The year 1911 is written on top just before the barrel. The magazine has a wooden floor plate (I was told that was important). The local gun shop told me it is a 9mm military issue used in WW1 and WW2 and was issued to a member of a machine gun crew (based on the MG in the serial number). He also identified the German proof marks that "prove it was military issued."

Everybody who has seen it has offered to buy it on the spot for upwards of $2000.

I would like you experts out there to verify this info and maybe tell me additional info if you can.

I have already field stripped it to clean out all the gunk and the internals are absolutely beautiful. IS BREAKFREE CLP OK FOR CLEANING AND LUBE ON THIS PISTOL? I hope so because that's what I used. I also ordered the AGI Armorer's Course DVD for Lugers to learn how to really take it apart so I can clean out all the crevices and whatnot.

The numbers on the grip frame are as follows: r.j.r.234.lmgk.
43.

Like I said earlier every part is marked with the number 83 and there are several "stamps" that look like a letter with a crown on top and a couple that look like a little man with arms in the air. (I know these are really bad descriptions, but I don't really know how to describe them).

Thanks in advance!!!

 

[Chuck R.]

Try here:

http://www.gunsworld.com/p08/p08_home_us.html

and here:

http://www.lugerforum.com/

The guys on the forum know Lugers.

Chuck

 

[King Red]

Hi,
I tried the Luger forum but for some reason everytime I try to post my message, the board logs me out. I don't know if it's my computer or their message board.

So I'll ask here again in the hopes that somebody can help me ID it.

Markings:

Top: 1911, DWM

Right Side: GF with a crown on top, GF with a crown on top, and an eagle with spread wings and a crown.

Grip: rjr.243lmgk.43

Various other places: 83

Also, the base of the mag is wooden and there is no lanyard loop at the bottom of the grip, which somebody told me is because it's an early model.

Can anybody help me with this or at least tell me if it's OK to use Breakfree CLP?

Thanks

 

[Hoppy590]

i dont have any advice about cleaning. but that is a nice gun, and a awesome graduation present.

 

[RickH]

That is a great present, and collectible to boot. Since all the parts match you may not want to shoot it, or as some from www.lugerforum.com would reccomend: Buy replacement parts for the ones likely to break, install them and then shoot. As soon as one numbered part breaks or wears out the value takes a hit.

 

[Jim Watson]

Breakfree CLP is fine on the steel. Don't get the grips or wooden magazine base oily with that or anything.

I am not a Luger expert, but can tell the following:
1911 = year made
DWM = Deutsche Waffen und Munitionsfabriken = German Weapons and Ammunition Maker, the manufacturer in Berlin.

Crown-GF is undoubtedly somebody's proof mark but I do not now see whose.

Crown-Eagle is the DWM company proof mark.

rjr243lmgk43 = I THINK this means it is the 43rd gun issued to the light machine gun section attached to infantry reserve battalion 243.

83 = the last two digits of the gun's serial number. I would expect there to be a full serial number on the front of the receiver below the barrel. I think they were using the four digit + letter system by then.

I think they were still using the bug proof at that time. Are the letter stamps Crown-B, Crown-U, and Crown-G? The "little man with arms in the air" might well be another style of eagle.


Does the action stop open when you pull the toggle open with the empty magazine in place?
Early guns like that did not have a bolt stop but they were added later. Most of the ones that missed the upgrade are said to have guns been issued in Bavaria.

A wonderful graduation present. What's your degree?

 

[King Red]

My degree is in nursing. I'm starting a critical care internship in a couple of months. The Luger was from a female coworker. Here dad had left it in the attick when he passed away like 20 years ago. She knew what it was worth but was kind enough to give it to me because she really was not interested in that sort of thing.

A little clarification on the proof marks: if you go to this link, number 12 is like the marks on my gun, only the eagle is after the two letters with crowns on mine.

http://www.gunsworld.com/p08/p08_proof_us.html

Ok, here's another thing. You said the serial number should be on the bottom of the barrel. Mine says 83 in large numbers (just like all the other parts), and then under that in smaller numbers it says 8,82

What does the 8,82 mean?

 

[Jim Watson]

Well, congratulations on hanging in there.
Your co-worker is a sweetie.

The real serial number is on the front of the frame below the barrel. Look for a small and maybe faint letter under the number. Luger no 83 with no suffix would have been made in 1909, I am having trouble with just 83 on a 1911 gun. Keep trying on the Luger forum where the collectors hang out.

8,82 is the bore diameter of the barrel.

Deciphering all the proofmarks and inspectors' stamps is beyond me except for the most common ones.

 

[Eightball]

You have the most awesome female coworker in the world.

 

[bkcraun]

My dad has a 1917 Erfurt Luger that has matching numbers everywhere and shoots like a dream. His dad got it in trade from someone oweing him gas money in the 1930's. Problem is, the guy had it chromed! Looks nice, but I sure it killed the value.

 

[King Red]

OK, this is driving me crazy. The only number on the frame below the barrel is the number 83, just like on every other part of the gun. I honestly can't find any other numbers except for the 1911 on top and the unit markings on the grip frame.

I'll try again at the Luger forum, but I don't know if I'll be able to log on.

 

[SDC]

It's possible that this was the 83rd Luger built by DWM in 1911, and that would explain the "83"s everywhere; normally, a Luger's full serial number is on the front of the lower frame, below the barrel, in the form of "1234", usually with a suffix letter, like "a", "b", "c", etc. in script form. To keep the pistol together with the proper parts, most of the other parts of that pistol would be stamped with the final two numbers of the full serial number ("34" in the above example). If there ISN'T a longer serial number on the front of the lower, the only reasonable explanation that I can think of is that this pistol's serial number really IS "83".

 

[LKB3rd]

I'd be inviting your co-worker out for a "thanks" meal if I were you!