Help with M1 Carbine value, please...

[UKWildcatFan]

I'm trying to find out the value of my M1 Carbine. Any help would be appreciated. I have an Inland, with a SN of 4,4xx,xxx. It is an M1. What other markings or characteristics am I looking for? Please provide a list, and where to look. Thanks.

 

[GRIZ22]

Condition?

 

[tark]

Pictures....perhaps? They would help immensely! M1 carbines were (are) one of the most complicated and immensely difficult guns to collect. There were so many manufactures and variations a great deal of specialized knowledge is required just to determine if a piece is original.

An unaltered, un-rebuilt carbine which is 100% original is almost impossible to find. They were subject to numerous rebuilds. Some manufactures, like Irwin-Pederson, sub-contracted many parts, such as the barrels, and will be found with parts that are from different sources. This does not mean they are a parts gun.

To determine if your carbine is all original and unaltered will require the services of someone who is far more knowledgeable than myself. Someone on the forum will undoubtedly steer you in the right direction.

Good luck!

 

[Reloadron]

I'm trying to find out the value of my M1 Carbine. Any help would be appreciated. I have an Inland, with a SN of 4,4xx,xxx. It is an M1. What other markings or characteristics am I looking for? Please provide a list, and where to look. Thanks.

My best and final offer would be ten bucks, a bottle of wine and a hooker. Seriously, a good condition functional shooter around my area at the shows and in shops is anywhere between $800 and maybe $1,100 give or take. Again, that is for your basic good condition GI shooter. Less really good detailed pictures it is just about impossible to answer your question. On any given day it is worth what someone who wants it is willing to pay, no more and no less. There are volumes of text on the War Baby and an original GI is just about impossible to find unaltered. I agree with Tark. If you are listing a serial number you can list for example 4,450,xxx but as you listed it makes it impossible to date it or see if the manufacturer is in fact correct as listed. As shown it would not be an Inland with the number shown. You show 4,4xx,xxx and Inland serialization ran in blocks, 3,152,520 to 3,212,519 and the next block was 4,879,526 to 5,549,821 so your 4,4xx,xxx doesn't fit for Inland Division Of General Motors. Now a 4,432,100 to 4,532,099 would be Quality Hardware manufacture and a 4,080.000 to 4,425,099 would be a National Postal Meter range.

Inland Division:
1-5
11-30
31-99
XA3-XA50
100-699,000
700,000-940,000
940,001-999,999
2,912,520-3,152,519
3,152,520-3,212,519 (Saganaw Steering Gear Division subcontract receivers)
4,879,526-5,549,821
6,219,689-6,449,867
6,664,884-7,234,883 (M2 Carbines)

All in all Inland made about 2,632,097 Carbines or about 43% of carbine production.


Ron

 

[CapnMac]

The "where" the receiver marking are can matter.
Earlier versions with the flip up rear sight had the serials just below that sight. Which means when the sliding rear peep was installed later, it overhangs the markings.

The barrel ought to have markings, too.

Stock ought to have and inspector's stamp, known as a cartouche ("kahr TWOsh") on the left side. There is often a latter "P" in a square on the forward face of the pistol grip showing that the weapon was pressure proof tested. The bottom of the oiler slot often has an initial in it as well.

According to Canfield, 4.4 million s/n is Quality Hardware, or National Postal Meter (Inland starts at 4,879,526). If it is, in fact, a legit NPM, that will add$250-500 to the retail value. That's because NPM was only assigned to 7% of total carbine production, and did not meet that target. So, they are rather rare.

A handy resource for this info is "The Collector's Guide to the M1 GARAND and the M1 CARBINE" by Bruce N. Canfield (ISBN: O-917218-32-9).

 

[newbutold]

Lots of info here: http://m1carbineforum.forumco.com/default.asp

 

[Oldpilot43]

M1 puzzle?

I have an M1 that I acquired a long time ago. Anyway it has the following: Receiver; US Rifle CAL. 30 Springfield Armory 3868509--Right Front of receiver Z 3 A; Below that D 28291 35; and forward of the Pin then a J; then on lower front of the receiver SA 1065 has been marked with an engraving tool. Bottom thicker rail has NM stamped in it. Everything in it has virtually no wear signs anywhere, and barrel looks new. Barrel; On the right side just under the retaining clip is P or D with a dot in the closed part of the letter. Forward of that is SA6535448 6 65 BU20 then a P space M and a stamp that is a horizontal rectangle with a figure inside that looks like an anvil with a dot over each end. Trigger group; Left side has D28290-8-SA; on the safety inside is C46015-6SA. I have a second trigger group that I was told was the original and had no numbers anywhere and is very worn. Bolt; 6528287 with a . U . under it. Operating Rod; Has NM just in front top of the finger latch. On the beveled right side is 7790722-SA. I think the engraving means it was rebarrelled in October of 1965 by Springfield Armory. The barrel looks new and is absolutely pristine inside. I have shot about 25 rounds thru it and it is extremely accurate. The stock that was on it when I got it was broken, so I replaced that with one I bought from an outfit in Missouri. What do I have??? (when I say extremely accurate, groups under 1.5" at 100 yards, I didn't need to change the sights. It was already dialed in!)

 

[Reloadron]

Your serial number would appear to be a 1945 manufactured receiver, likely around likely during May, 1945. The D 28291 35 is the receiver drawing number and the Z 3 A is the heat treat lot number. All of that makes sense for the year of manufacture. Now I am not a guru on these things but what I do not quite understand is the NM which designates National Match.
The original trigger group would have been:
Trigger Housing: D28290-18-SA
Trigger Guard would be a stamped version
Hammer would be dwg # C46008-9 SA
Hammer Spring Guide would be without wings
Safety would be SA 11

The Operating Rod would be Dwg # D35382 9 SA, with the flat side design.

You mentioned a NM operating rod which again designates it as a National Match operating rod. Your barrel should be stamped NM also I believe. The '65 would fit.

Now here is what is confusing. Actual NM M1 Garand rifles were not produced until 1953 they were all post WWII rifles. However, there were rebuilds which is what I assume you have. The correct NM stock would have been glass bedded.

As to rebuilds?
1953 None
1954 499
1955 314
1956 550
1957 499
1958 731
1959 2,652
1960 8,663
1961 1,410
1962 4,500
1963 3,639

I could give the NM specifications but there are a few pages of them. The data I have provided is reference material from "A Collectors Guide to the M1 Garand" by Bruce Canfield. I also used reference books by Scott Duff The M1 Garand WWII for your serial data. Really not too much of a mystery.

Ron

 

[Oldpilot43]

Thanks

That's the direction I was leaning also. I believe it to be just exactly as you say. The second trigger matches your info. It is much heavier on the pull and not nearly as smooth as the one in the gun. I got the gun from a guy for gas and $100 bucks that told me he was on his way to Camp Lejune, so I assumed he was a marine....he had the right haircut and saluted when I came back to help him out (officers sticker on my car I assumed). It has sat in the corner of the gun safe for most of the 46 years I have had it. The guy had several others in his uhaul that looked pretty nice. The box this rifle was in had a delivery post a little over a month previous, so I've always wondered about it. I am getting a little long in the tooth, and none of my grandson's wants the M1 so I will probably sell or trade it.
Thanks for your help.
RAS

 

[Reloadron]

My pleasure. I have quite a bit of reference material on the rifles. Every now and then it comes in handy. Have a great holiday weekend. I won't try to place a price on the rifle but for someone who still shoots matches with the M1 Garand I would say an easy $1,000 plus since the rifle was setup NM at some point.

Ron

 

[Oldpilot43]

M1 puzzle .... solved, probably

I thank you for the input. I kept the M1 partly because it was what my father used in WWII. He survived the Battle of the Bulge only to be KIA on the 13th of Jan 1945 while rounding up German stragglers 7 miles SE of Malmedy Belguim. I only used the M16, and 20mm canons in my F-4s, but they wouldn't let me have either after Viet Nam.
Have a great weekend and thanks again.
RAS

 

[rondog]

Wait - are we talking about an M1 Carbine or an M1 Garand? I'm seeing discussions about both?

I are confoosed......

 

[Reloadron]

Wait - are we talking about an M1 Carbine or an M1 Garand? I'm seeing discussions about both?

I are confoosed......

Carbine. However the Carbine had apparently run its course as the OP posted May 22 and never returned to provide more information or answer questions. Oldpilot43 jumped in with a M1 Garand question. Figured since the OP had not been back I would just answer the Garand question as best I could. Started Carbine and morphed into Garand.

Ron

 

[SwampWolf]

QUOTE: "...I are confoosed......"

I are too.

 

[Oldpilot43]

Sorry to confuse

I am new to the THR, so I stepped in to get an answer, sorry to confuse....I am of the old school: the only dumb question is the one not asked. Thanks for your patience.

 

[SwampWolf]

No problem from this end, Oldpilot43. And welcome to The High Road!

 

[Comrade Mike]

Let me know if you're interested in selling! I may just be interested


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