Help with Military trench Guns and Rifles

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Boocoo

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Need some help on a small military collection I inherited and it looks like world war 1 & 2. Starting with a couple of 1897 trench guns I need help with. I have bunch of other items and also same era vintage.

For the trenche arms I have serial number and photos and any experts out and about to pinpoint price and era.

Thanks in advance. Boocoo
 
I would suggest posting the Win 97 trench gun serial numbers and photos in the Firearms Research sub forum (near the bottom of the THR page). Other sources for values include Gunbroker, Firearms Bluebook (printed in regular editions), Military Weapons pricing books (similar), collector selling websites such as Joe Salter, Simpson Ltd., Checkpoint Charlie's, and magazines such as Gun Digest.

These rough estimates are for average to VG condition from what I have observed in auctions, books, etc. from the last 10 years or so. Unfired rifles in pristine condition are worth much more. Those in relic (non fireable) condition much less. Training rifles with machined away chambers etc. are usually less but some collectors want them to complete collections--check websights. This is also true if the collector had provenance (evidence such as letters, government forms, etc.) to establish the history of the rifle. Verified military sniper rifles of any military are their own separate market--consult auction sites and specialized military collector sights such as Simpsons LTD for approximate pricing. Military training rifles in .22 are their own submarket as well.

Any that have been altered by drilling and tapping the receiver (other than by the military), cut stocks, sanded stocks to "fix it", defaced cartouches, alterations such as cutting the buttstock to add a comfy recoil pad, adding checkering to the stock or other such "improvements", cutting barrel length and so on are worth much less.

Take the following as a very rough guide fwiw. Price is usually regulated by condition, demand for the firearm, and rarity.

WWI Springfields $700-1000 in average condition--high number receivers and Mark I receivers bring more as do finger grooved stocks or very early 1903's from the rod bayonet era, WWI 1917 Rifles aka American Enfields depending on condition and originality (no aftermarket modifications, finishes, etc. ) go from $600-1000, British WWI era No. 1, Mk. 3 Enfields about $400 on up depending on the maker, condition, and originality, German WWI era GEW 98's from $400-500 on up, Lebels and Berthiers are hard ones but generally about the same as GEW Mausers, WWI era Ross rifles are pretty rare and haven't kept up with those. Carcanos $300-500 are ball park figures. German WWII era Mausers with all markings have gotten quite expensive usually over $1000. Garands are now at $1000 on up even in pretty battered condition, same for M-1 Carbines, Other Mausers from Sweden, Yugoslavia 24/47's, etc. $400-500 on up which is also true of No. 4, Mk 1 Enfield rifles with Savage Lend Lease marked at a slight premium. Aussie WWII era No. 1 rifles bring a bit more due to relative rarity. Finnish Mosins are about the same starting at $400 and Russian Mosins a bit less unless an odd variant. Steyr m95's about the same as Russian Mosins. Odd firearms such as Dutch Mannlichers, Turks, etc. consult a bluebook. Arisakas range from really cheap to expensive depending on whether the mum is present etc. $250-on up.

Oddities such as WWI trench guns, German odd variants, G43 or 98/40's, etc., you better consult the Bluebook or auction sites and of course any NFA items (machine guns or even ones that are easily convertible to select fire) are a real pickle if not handled correctly--consult a firearms lawyer in that case. Bayonets, field gear, and other militaria, I suggest checking out ebay auction prices and IMA (international military antiques, I believe) website for prices.
 
Authentic US mil shotguns are a niche and worth lots of $ if they can be verified. In comparison to other firearms in terms of numbers made, they are probably more rare than any other type of weapon, with the possible exception of sniper rifles. I was also once told that TRUE US mil 97 trench guns are often counterfeited by modifying other 97's, such as police/riot guns and that serial # verification is the only sure way to know if one is a true trench scattergun.
 
Authentic US mil shotguns are a niche and worth lots of $ if they can be verified. In comparison to other firearms in terms of numbers made, they are probably more rare than any other type of weapon, with the possible exception of sniper rifles. I was also once told that TRUE US mil 97 trench guns are often counterfeited by modifying other 97's, such as police/riot guns and that serial # verification is the only sure way to know if one is a true trench scattergun.

I heard that also. Didn't Sarco or a place like that sell the die to make a flaming bomb mark?
 
Need some help on a small military collection I inherited and it looks like world war 1 & 2. Starting with a couple of 1897 trench guns I need help with. I have bunch of other items and also same era vintage.

For the trenche arms I have serial number and photos and any experts out and about to pinpoint price and era.

Thanks in advance. Boocoo
Pics! Need Pics! :)
 
And if you don’t find the info you need here -go to milsurps.com. They actually have a section on military shotguns as well as lots of advice on authenticating all kinds of old war weapons (I go there for info on M1 carbines...).
Hope this helps.
 
I heard that also. Didn't Sarco or a place like that sell the die to make a flaming bomb mark?
Yes. You can also buy the stamps off of ebay as well. Same is true for German WWII era stamps. Caveat emptor.
 
Hope this helps,

Pictures of the two 1897. The Gun of topic is the later 95xxx and is on top. The bottom 1897 is 66xxx and is the bottom 1897 gun in the pic when you see the two 1897 in the same photo.

I guess I'm looking to establish a ruff but real past auction market dollar value and integrity of each item.

In the past I would use the sale section from the web site and gave the members first chance for an item I would be selling. I had great results but that was some time ago.

I will try and get better pics.

Thanks,





image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg
 

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image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg 22 cal short action T stamp on barrel MK 2 and all parts are stamped with M2 and barrel has ordnance stamp and barrel is stamped 28 near muzzle. All others seem to be 43. Barrel seems thicker over most.
 

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Photos online. Not the best pics but I can try and take better ones.
 
I have some military pistols with original US flap holsters they have lanyards with u.s. whistles and then boxes of plain cardboard in rounds of 25 OO buck brass shot shells and then tons and tons of moon clips.

smith Wesson U.S. 1917 45 ACP. S/6 tiny Springfield stamps, Nice colt 455 eley new model stamped all over with proof marks. All 45 and 455 eley in correct military stamped boxes form what I can see. Really nice Colt commando. Flaming bomb stamp on it

I Have a paratrooper inland as well.

I inherited these over 35 years ago and never fired one.
 
Looks like some nice stuff Bc.

I am not a camera expert by any means, but I'll offer a few well intended suggestions.

1. Let natural light be your friend. My best photos come (with a camera) in lightly shaded outdoor light.
2. Maybe organize the photos better by working with one gun at a time.
I just can't tell what photo goes with what gun on the 97's.

What I can see of the M22 looks nice (and straight).
Just not up on the musket, but that tang sight with adj. windage is a nice one!

Not really sure what you are asking.
Values for insurance or sales or ?
Values for straight military collectibles like a 97 trench (as well as most of the items you have mentioned)
are best realized at an auction house or consigned through an established on-line seller.
Be aware that neither will guarantee any specific dollar figure though.

Hope you can post back with new photos.
And welcome to THR!
JT
 
My gut reaction to the 1897 model is that it looks 'too blue' for its age. But that could be a trick of the light. The lettering is blurry in the pic but if it looks 'blurry' or filled in on the barrel it's been re-blued.

The markings look right. Not all were stamped with the flaming bomb in the same place.

I am also getting confused on which shotgun is which.
 
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That all brass shotgun ammo by itself can fetch good money. Sounds like you have a nice collection. I'd recommend getting a professional appraisal.

You probably know this, but do not store the handguns in the holsters, they will eventually rust.
 
I will take photos and try to do a better job. I will do the paratrooper and some pistols and Ammo. And bayonets and trench knives. Was the Savage 1907 ever used in WW1 / WW2 ? All the items have military connection but one item in the collection savage 380 savage and a two matching Heiser holsters. one lined flap holster and other is a custom engraved and Stiching and large large flat belt type. Thanks on the storage in the leather.
Most of all the items when I received came in a Red Cross gray in color with Red Cross logos and cedar wood lined. It Looks on the bigger side of a Foot wooden locker with handles. And it's also has a rubber seal and to date it snaps tight and seals. Outside gray and Red Cross logos is faded a bit but it's clear as day.


Thanks all.
 
Savage was never issued but very possibly went to war, as every doughboy wanted a pistol. Lots of private handguns went overseas.
 
Do me a favor and start a new thread for each item you us to look at.

You have a collection worth a good chunk of change and any documents that correspond to the items make them more interesting, and potentially more valuable.

Again, I'm happy to see and give some ball park numbers, but I really think you need a professional appraisal.
 
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