Help with Oregon Trail Laser-Cast for a Marlin 1894 44 mag

[R.A.D. Dad]

Hi, I'm looking for help from those who have worked up loads for the Laser-Cast 44 magnum. I had been loading up cheap flat nosed FMJ factory seconds. I found that the accuracy, benched, at 100 yards was absolutely awful with those cheap bullets, groups of 10 inches or more. (I'd say that these were actually factory seconds of factory seconds ) I read that Laser-cast makes a good quality hard cast bullet that can produce tight groups and at a price I can afford to shoot a lot. Thing is I can't find any reloading data for them.

Being as they are hard cast can they be pushed the same velocities as jacketed bullets? Could I use load data for jacketed bullets with similar bullet profiles?

Ideally I'd like the loads to be suitable for deer hunting out to 125 yards.

Thanks,

-Rich

 

[R.A.D. Dad]

Anyone?

 

[Otherguy Overby]

Does your Marlin have the "micro groove" barrel?

If so, you may need to change it to a barrel with standard rifleing.

Some research on your part may confirm this.

 

[R.A.D. Dad]

Yes, it does have the micro-groove. How does that affect things?

 

[R.A.D. Dad]

.

 

[asknight]

Marlin's microgroove rifling has traditionally showed a strong preference for jacketed bullets. I know not of any cast loads that would provide suitable accuracy.

 

[loadedround]

I use Laser Cast bullets in all my 44mags including an older model Ruger Carbine and also in my 45 Colts and have found them to be the best lead bullets I have ever shot, and once upon a time I even cast my own. I shoot both calibers around 1000fps and have yet to have any leading problems. I have pushed my Super Blackhawk to 1200 fps and have not had a problem with leading. Oregon Trail used to send samples out upon request and I suggest you call them and try their bullets in your Marlin. I have had no experience loading lead bullets in a "micro groove" barrel, but Marlin sells large quantities of rifles to Cowboy Action Shooters who all use lead bullets with out complaint. Call Marlin also wih this question, I believe they have an 800 number. Good shooting!

 

[ReloaderFred]

Hard cast bullets will work in the Marlin Carbines, if the alloy is hard enough and the velocities are kept below about 1,600 fps. The Oregon Trail bullets are hard enough, so if you keep the velocities down, they will stabilize in your Marlin. The accuracy will only reveal itself after you've tried it, but you can experiment with the loads and find what works best in your particular rifle.

Oregon Trail has a loading manual for their bullets. The first edition manual list loads for the .44 Carbines, including the Marlin, for bullets from 200 grains up to 300 grains. As they suggest, it would be wise to slug your barrel and order bullets .001" over bore diameter for best results.

You can call Oregon Trail and get information on their Laser-cast bullets at 1-800-811-0548, or check on line at www.laser-cast.com.

There are many myths about not being able to shoot lead bullets from Marlin Carbines with Micro-groove rifling, but I'm shooting a 180 grain cast gas check bullet through my .357 Magnum Marlin Carbine over 15 grains of Lil'-gun, and it's a stout load. It shoots as well as any jacketed bullet I've tried, and better than most. You just have to cast them relatively hard and match the velocity to the gun and bullet. I also use a Marlin Carbine in .357 for my Cowboy Action Shooting and have put thousands of rounds through it without any leading. The cowboy loads are light loads, with light bullets, and they are very accurate. Again, match the load and bullet to the gun and it works just fine.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[molasses.slim]

The problem with any lead bullet in Marlin micro-groove barrels comes from trying to push the bullet too fast -- the narrow and shallow grooves don't "grip the lead well and the lead strips into the grooves. you get horrible accuracy and a badly leaded barrel. As someone else stated 1000 fps is about the limit in micro-grooves. Many cowboy shooters use lead in them without problems.

 

[R.A.D. Dad]

So the Laser-Cast probably wouldn't be good for loading up a stout round for deer hunting then? I push my FMJ's up around 1800 FPS

 

[ReloaderFred]

I have successfully shot lead bullets through my .357, .41 and .44 Marlin Carbines, and do so regularly. The key is casting the bullets hard, and I make mine from linotype for that purpose. They work just fine, and the Laser-Cast bullets are about the same hardness as linotype.

Your best bet is to call them and talk to them directly. They have a lot of experience with their bullets through a lot of different guns.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[Nhsport]

I don't have experience with the micro-grove as my marlin is the cowboy model with the ballard rifleing.
I do recomend that your first step would be to clean your barrel very well includeing some soaking with a good strong (stinky) copper solvent to get every trace of jacket material out of the barrel . I suspect that some that have claimed problems with lead bullets and leading (micro grove or otherwise) are shooting copper fouled barrels , always a mess. I like Sweets 7.62 .
I have had great results with 44 mag lead reloads with 2400 powder . This load was running at about 1250 fps out of my 629 and dropped a russian hog very well , The same load beats 1600fps out of the rifle , I would think that would be a decent hunting load and it is darn accurate both in the pistol and rifle. I was pushing close to the top load in several manuals so use your own judgement and work up carefully

 

[R.A.D. Dad]

How can you tell if your barrel is copper fouled? Can my barrel still be copper fouled even when it appears I've done a thorough cleaning?

 

[ReloaderFred]

If you use a good copper solvent, such as the mentioned Sweet's 7.62, or Butch's Bore Shine, etc., you will see telltale blue on the patch. This is copper fouling and you just clean with the copper solvent until there is no more blue on the patches. Don't let the solvent set in the bore overnight, as it will attack the metal. They have a lot of ammonia in them, so just clean the bore and then run a patch through with some regular bore solvent to remove any traces of ammonia.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[Nhsport]

By my findings any barrel that has shot even a few jacketed bullets has some copper in it and is not suitable for lead loads untill it has been cleaned well . Standard gun solvents such as Hoppes #9 will clean powder fouling and such but does little against copper. A true copper solvent such as Sweets 7.62 or Butches Bore Scrub uses amonia to chemically eat away the copper. Soak for a few minutes and if the patch comes out green/blue you still have copper. A bronze or brass brush or rod will also get eaton up and leave the same blue/green marks on the patch so don't get fooled.
I will clean several barrels at the same time while watching TV. At each comercial I trot into the gun room and patch out the bores and re wet the bore with more copper slovent and repeate this untill I get clean patches .
If you suspect layered copper and lead you might go at it with J+B bore paste to clean down to the bare steel .
It does take some time to get a clean barrel with many guns but If you take this time you might be surprised to find that so-so shooter is really a pretty good gun .
I am pretty lazy so in practise most of my guns are lead only or jacketed only because it is to much trouble to swap back and forth