Help with transfer

[NorthCounty]

I'm still kind of new to this, so I thought I'd ask for some advise. Please bear with me.

I had a guy come to me to do a transfer for 2 guns he bought on gunbroker. I've already sent my info off for one, and I was getting ready to sent for the second one when the guy called me back and said that he already sold them to a buddy of his for a profit. He wanted to know if his buddy could come fill out the paperwork and have me just transfer them to him. It seems pretty clear that this is illegal.

My question to you is, how would you handle this? I'm trying to figure out what to tell this guy. I would have just told him to find someone else, but one gun is already in route.

Thanks for any advise.

 

[woof]

I don't think the problem is an FFL problem. But I wouldn't do it because how do you know that, after transferring to the other guy, the original guy won't come in and say, "where's my gun?" I suppose you could have original guy come in and sign something for you, but I would tell him you'll make the transer to him and then he can deal with his friend. If he doesn't like it tell him not to get you in the middle of any quick flips, and threaten to return the gun to the sender.

 

[Thomas Garrett]

I've done a few transfers (from Gunbroker). I would have to say. The "original" purchaser "has" to come in and finalize the transfer. (remember your FFL license was sent to the seller in "his" name). make him come in to receive the weapon.(or you'll send it back). After he does that then he and his friend can do transfer paperwork at your store transferring one to the other. 2 step process. double fees. hope that helps.

 

[woof]

I agree that's what should be done but I don't see where the law requires it. As long as the transfer to whoever is legal I think it becomes about property law instead of firearms law. If I were the FFL here I would refuse just because I'd feel like I was being used. I also wonder, if both are local, why can't they just do a FTF transer between themselves?

This reminds me of when I had a large lawn tractor in for service in order to sell it. I got an offer while it was in the shop and told the buyer, ok you pick it up and you pay the bill there. he agreed. Then the shop called and said I had a bill there to pay. The guy had just gone in and taken it (he had no bill of sale) and not paid the bill. I told the shop they would have to collect from him and refused to pay. I could have, and perhaps should have, said what do you mean someone picked up my tractor? What the hell are you talking about?

 

[Thomas Garrett]

Don't get involved in a "straw" purchase. Save your FFL License. The original purchaser "Has" to recieve the weapon at your end. Remember in the "sellers" state it's being transfered in/to his name. Your just receiving it at your store under your FFl to make sure he is the one thar receives it. All documentation, Protect yourself.

 

[woof]

Do the right thing but not for the wrong reason. I believe you have the right to transfer it to a different person but as I've said I wouldn't. Still you should know and protect your FFL rights so I think you should research it, maybe with ATF, and get a reliable decision. Meanwhile tell the guy he can get it himself in X days or you'll return it freight collect.

 

[Thomas Garrett]

Woof, your on the same page. Cudos.

 

[deadin]

Remember in the "sellers" state it's being transfered in/to his name.

I'm not sure this is exactly correct. There is no place in the bound book of the shipping FFL that shows anything about the guns ultimate destination. The only entry he will make is who the gun was released to, i.e. the receiving FFL. (You)
Were it me, I would only release the gun to the original buyer. What he does with it later is his problem. In fact, doing what he is asking might (just speculation) involve you in aiding and abbeting in a crime. After all he sounds like he is intentionally buying and selling for profit. That could be
considered "dealing".
Keep it simple and be safe. (Besides, you might be able to score two transfer fees.)

 

[Thomas Garrett]

deadin, your dead on the money!

 

[CoRoMo]

I've known of people with gunbroker accounts who've won auctions on behalf of a friend who didn't have a gunbroker account themselves. The non-members paid the sellers for the guns and received the transfers. I've know of this happening a lot. Anything wrong with that?

The OP sitch is similar except the original purchaser already sent his money to the seller for these guns, but doesn't want to be the one to receive the transfer.

 

[BhmBill]

legally, it's not a problem.

If John A is the one who bought the guns on GB, John B is John A's friend and paid John A for the guns before they even arrived. If John A goes in and fills out the 4473 and checks yes on the "are you the purchaser of this firearm" question, he would then be lying since John B, at that point, is the purchaser. Ultimately, it's John B's money going to the seller and he is the intended recipient.

I think it's illegal now for John A to fill out the 4473.

 

[deadin]

Unfortunately it was John A's money that was paid to the seller. According to the OP he didn't sell the guns to his friend until after the auction was over and the guns were already on their way to his FFL.
If he was serving as a conduit into GB for his friend from the beginning, then the scenario you described would be correct. I didn't get that feeling from the original post.

 

[NorthCounty]

Sorry about the confusing post.

John A. said he bought the guns and he was the one that was going to receive them. I found out today that he used someone elses credit card to purchase one of the guns (possibly John B.'s I don't have his name yet).

Now the money order for the second gun is blank he "forgot to fill it out". I'm thinking if John B. is the credit card holder I'll have him fill out the money order and that is who I should transfer them to.

I hope this doesn't confuse you guys more. Thank you for the responses!

 

[Geneseo1911]

This is why I don't envy FFLs. The stuff you guys have to deal with and watch out for sucks.

John A. said he bought the guns and he was the one that was going to receive them. I found out today that he used someone elses credit card to purchase one of the guns (possibly John B.'s I don't have his name yet).

Isn't this the definition of a straw purchase?

 

[deadin]

You know, this is getting so convoluted that if it were my license at risk, I would just tell them to go with the original deal or to find another FFL.
You already said you are new at the FFL game, so maybe a call to the BATFE operations/regulation folks might be in order.

 

[NorthCounty]

Thank you all for your help. I really appreciate it.