Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Here we go again "no toy weapons"

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by ZeSpectre, Dec 18, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. ZeSpectre

    ZeSpectre Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    5,503
    Location:
    Deep in the valley
    No Toy Weapons at School
    Dec 18, 2007

    So another solution in search of a problem?
     
  2. matt87

    matt87 Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2007
    Messages:
    299
    Location:
    Exeter, (formerly) Great Britiain
    Appearance is everything. I wonder if school board elections are coming up in Harrisonburg? What a bad omen for the quality of education in Harrisonburg.
     
  3. keeleon

    keeleon Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2007
    Messages:
    254
    I work at an elementary school, and I can honestly say I have to agree with this. I seriously doubt any of the kids bringing toy guns to school have the proper training, physically and morally to not do something stupid with them. Are they going to excercise the 4 rules, and not point it at somebody? I know it's just a toy, but if a kid picks up bad habits early on they tend to stick. My kids will have toy guns, as I am a very avid airsofter, but thy will understand that if I catch them being irresponsible with them, they will be beaten.

    I know 30 years ago pointing a toy gun at someone and saying "bang" wasn't a big deal, but times have changed, and people react differently. What about toy swords? Let 2 10 year old boys bring toy swords to school, and see how long it takes for them to hit each other with them. Look on the flip side, can you give me a good reason why schools should allow toy guns?

    On top of that, have you seen the toy guns nowadays? It is impossible to tell the difference between a $20 airsoft pistol and the real thing from 10 feet away. How many times does "Wolf!" need to be cried before we ignore it, and some kid brings a REAL gun?
     
  4. elrod

    elrod Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2006
    Messages:
    697
    Location:
    Heart of the Heart of Dixie
    But, by the same token, what message does the banning of toys, drawings of guns, and even the speaking of the "G" word send? To forbid somthing to youngsters is to dare them to use it. Would we not be better served to instruct and demonstrate the proper uses of this tool (to age-appropriate kids)? Don't they teach driver-ed? Those so inclined may take shop classes to learn the proper use of other "dangerous" tools, such as bandsaws. What is so wrong with that? Oh yeah, I forgot, that's too simple!:cuss:
     
  5. elrod

    elrod Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2006
    Messages:
    697
    Location:
    Heart of the Heart of Dixie
    edit: deleted, duplicate post.
     
  6. Roswell 1847

    Roswell 1847 member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
    Messages:
    717
    Location:
    East Tennesseee
    Keelson I agree.
    I'm also an airsoft fan though probably for different reasons, we use then as safe props in our films, and even then the guys were surrounded by an armed response team when they filmed too close to Heatrow. I've seen the clip just before they shut off the camera, the guys were scared stupid, I LMAO. Still I'd much rather cops didn't ignore calls about armed gangs even if it is a mistake.

    I can remember kids bringing their dads war trophies to school for show and tell, the only thing the teacher did was have the janitor check to be sure it wasn't loaded before letting the kids pass them around and examine them.
    Some kids carried small caliber pistols to guard against feral dogs while walking home through the countryside. Never did one pull a gun on another much less shoot anyone.

    I still have my NRA Safe Hunter badge I got as part of Phys Ed. We went to the lake and fired .22 rifles and learned a bit about gun safety.

    Society has changed a lot since then.
     
  7. siglite

    siglite Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2007
    Messages:
    1,234
    Location:
    Charleston, WV
    Huh? Do they require training, physically and morally to not do something with a nerf bat?

    I picked up bad habits, but the idea that a kid can't distinguish a real gun from a toy gun is patently ridiculous. The only kid that can't, is the kid that's never handled EITHER a real gun OR a toy gun. I must've "killed" my schoolyard friends tens, if not hundreds of thousands of times playing "war" everywhere, including school. How does this reconcile with your opinion? How come I haven't shot all my coworkers from the bad habits I developed? Oh... because I, like nearly every other kid I've ever met, was more intelligent than kids are being given credit here?

    Somehow a plastic toy is more of a threat than your beating? Huh?

    Because an anti-freedom socialist-infused educational system from the PHDs down to kindergarten teachers have changed things, yeah, they've changed. For the worse. And it seems you'd perpetuate this change. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with actual school safety, and everything to do with promoting the idea in children that guns are evil terrible creatures that will jump up off a table and massacre millions on their own little lonesomes.

    Hell yeah! And if I can find a toy sword, I'll JOIN 'EM! It's...... a....... toy.

    Give me a good reason why a school should allow anything besides a book. Why should schools should allow toy $anything_here.


    Funny how before the socialists took over government schools, not only was "wolf!" not being cried, but I don't remember mass school shootings. And kids DID bring real guns to school. Hunting rifles in the parking lots.... guns for show and tell... and not once did any of them jump off the table and slaughter the whole school.
     
  8. mekender

    mekender Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2007
    Messages:
    1,255
    ya know, my son told me the other day that they dont play dodgeball in school because someone might get hurt
     
  9. DoubleTapDrew

    DoubleTapDrew Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2006
    Messages:
    5,356
    Location:
    Oregon
    Phase 2, remove all history books. Filled with violence those things are!
     
  10. PRazz

    PRazz Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2007
    Messages:
    141
    Location:
    Kentucky
    My 4 year old daughter is doing a party/gift exchange at preschool tomorrow. The letter home regarding the party includes a full page description of the event. The words "Please no weapon related gifts" are in bold and the only thing highlighted in the whole letter. Kind of ridiculous and extreme in my opinion. I wanted to send in a "weapon related" gift just to cheese them off. They're trying to get to them at an early age which does not fly in my book. We played all kinds of gun games when we were kids, and I never once considered pointing a real gun at someone. There is a difference between real and play, and kids are smart enough to know it, even at 4 years old.
     
  11. RKBABob

    RKBABob Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2007
    Messages:
    624
    Location:
    Pennsylvania - Where we cling to guns and religion
    Hey, while they're at it, why not institute a dress code...
    so the little thugs will be appear to be from the chess club.
     
  12. Joe Demko

    Joe Demko Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Messages:
    6,523
    Location:
    Just two minutes from sanity.
    Unless things were different where and when some of you went to school, school has never been a place for toys. During my own elementary school years in the 1960's, bringing a toy of any kind to school resulted in one of the nuns seizing it and you never getting it back. Buy your kid a whole arsenal of toy guns if it makes you feel all tingly and freedom-fightery. Just make sure he keeps that at home for playtime there.
     
  13. RKBABob

    RKBABob Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2007
    Messages:
    624
    Location:
    Pennsylvania - Where we cling to guns and religion
    Oh, great! ... now I'm gonna have nightmares.


    I can just remember it like it was yesterday.....

    "You'll like your teacher next year. She's a great disciplinarian."
    Funny... I didn't know what that word meant then... but I figured it out pretty quick!


    an on topic comment:
    Good point, though. Why are these kids allowed ANY toys at school? I wasn't.
     
  14. MICHAEL T

    MICHAEL T Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Messages:
    6,011
    Location:
    outback Kentucky
    Quote:
    I work at an elementary school, and I can honestly say I have to agree with this. I seriously doubt any of the kids bringing toy guns to school have the proper training, physically and morally to not do something stupid with them.

    Huh? Do they require training, physically and morally to not do something with a nerf bat?


    Quote:
    Are they going to excercise the 4 rules, and not point it at somebody? I know it's just a toy, but if a kid picks up bad habits early on they tend to stick.

    I picked up bad habits, but the idea that a kid can't distinguish a real gun from a toy gun is patently ridiculous. The only kid that can't, is the kid that's never handled EITHER a real gun OR a toy gun. I must've "killed" my schoolyard friends tens, if not hundreds of thousands of times playing "war" everywhere, including school. How does this reconcile with your opinion? How come I haven't shot all my coworkers from the bad habits I developed? Oh... because I, like nearly every other kid I've ever met, was more intelligent than kids are being given credit here?


    Quote:
    My kids will have toy guns, as I am a very avid airsofter, but thy will understand that if I catch them being irresponsible with them, they will be beaten.

    Somehow a plastic toy is more of a threat than your beating? Huh?


    Quote:
    I know 30 years ago pointing a toy gun at someone and saying "bang" wasn't a big deal, but times have changed, and people react differently.

    Because an anti-freedom socialist-infused educational system from the PHDs down to kindergarten teachers have changed things, yeah, they've changed. For the worse. And it seems you'd perpetuate this change. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with actual school safety, and everything to do with promoting the idea in children that guns are evil terrible creatures that will jump up off a table and massacre millions on their own little lonesomes.


    Quote:
    What about toy swords? Let 2 10 year old boys bring toy swords to school, and see how long it takes for them to hit each other with them.

    Hell yeah! And if I can find a toy sword, I'll JOIN 'EM! It's...... a....... toy.


    Quote:
    Look on the flip side, can you give me a good reason why schools should allow toy guns?

    Give me a good reason why a school should allow anything besides a book. Why should schools should allow toy $anything_here.



    Quote:
    On top of that, have you seen the toy guns nowadays? It is impossible to tell the difference between a $20 airsoft pistol and the real thing from 10 feet away. How many times does "Wolf!" need to be cried before we ignore it, and some kid brings a REAL gun?

    Funny how before the socialists took over government schools, not only was "wolf!" not being cried, but I don't remember mass school shootings. And kids DID bring real guns to school. Hunting rifles in the parking lots.... guns for show and tell... and not once did any of them jump off the table and slaughter the whole school.




    I made toy swords and encourged my daugthers to fight with them I gave them BB guns at 6 and 22 rifles at 10. They also each have a pistol. They are 13 15 17 today . On honor roll and Beta club. Guess what under christmas tree are 3 good sharp ready to use Katana's
    Teach them the difference between toys and real. Let them play ,their kids. Plenty of time to brainwash them into correct PC crap later. If your kids can't play with toy guns and have shoot outs ,fist fights, rock fights , wood sword fights,Then you should be whipped Because you are creating a problem child later in life. The kind that do carry a real gun to school . and findly get to release all the pent up emotions you suppressed in their childhood.
     
  15. Beatnik

    Beatnik Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2006
    Messages:
    552
    Location:
    Woodbridge, VA
    I'd be perfectly happy with schools overreacting to nothing and making life miserable for everything, if YOU WOULD JUST STOP STEALING MY MONEY TO DO IT.

    Harrisonburg is supposed to be in the non-communist part of the state. What's going on?
     
  16. CountGlockula

    CountGlockula Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2006
    Messages:
    3,522
    Location:
    In a Los Angeles coffin.
    Nostalgia time!!!

    This is interesting as with other insane gun control issues in our youths' education system.

    In the 80's during my first year in middle school (1987-1988), we had one of those, "What do you want to do when you grow up" sessions. Our class spent half a day in the Library to study out things that interests us in hopes of a career focus.

    I ended up picking a book on gunsmithing. As I read through it, I was fascinated on how the mechanics of guns, appropriate wage at the time of a professional gunsmith and that customers entrust gunsmiths to ensure the reliability of their weapon. I was sold, and I wrote a paper on wanting to be a gunsmith when I grow up. I think I got an "A".

    I wonder if that book is still in the library now?
     
  17. keeleon

    keeleon Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2007
    Messages:
    254
    Wow! Apperently, I didn't make my point clear enough.

    This was actually more my point than anything else. Note I stated that I have no problem with my kids having toy guns as long as they are responsible with them. I fully agree that it is asinine that kids get in trouble for just saying "gun " or drawing pictures of them. Hell, all I drew in elementary school were guns, swords, and trucks with guns and swords on them.

    As was stated there is no training of any kind about firearms in schools, and I think that is a real shame. But undortunately that's also the reason I qagree that they shouldn't have them there. You may say that kids can tell the difference between "playing with toy guns" and "being responsible with real ones", but that might just be your kids. Imagine a kid with no training, plays with toy guns, and happens across a real one? Is he going to have the knowledge to make sure it's unloaded or just not touch it? Or is he going to think "Cool, Jimmy stand still!"?

    Look at it this way, if your kid (who proabably has some knowledge on gun safety) brings a toy gun to school, what is he going to do with it? Wave it around, pointing at people, excercising excellent trigger control? Or is he going to be responsible with it? I understand completely that no physical harm can be done with just a simple toy gun, but without proper reinforcement, it can be dangerous down the road.

    I used to manage an airsoft store for 2 years. I was constantly promoting airsoft guns as an excellent and safe way to teach gun safety. Some parents were very impressed, and I'm sure I swayed a few antis, but alot of them could care less, and if you put a gun in most teenagers hands the first thing they do is point at their friend and pull the trigger. I am talking about full metal, 1:1 weight and size to the real thing. YOU would have to pull the mag or slide to make sure. But I have seen this first hand ALOT.

    BTW, it bugs me to no end that I cannot have a decent conversation about guns with ANYONE I work with, because the subject is "too taboo". I would love to change that, but I don't see it happening.

    But I live in CA, so my opinion is tainted already, right?
     
  18. v35

    v35 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2006
    Messages:
    697
    Location:
    V35 Family Compound, Bucks County, Pennsylvania
    Oh please. I grew up playing cowpersons and native Americans and turned out just fine.
    :rolleyes:
     
  19. keeleon

    keeleon Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2007
    Messages:
    254
    Unfortunately "cowpersons and native Americans" is a little different from "rap stars and NBA players". :(
     
  20. Robert Hairless

    Robert Hairless Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2003
    Messages:
    3,983
    keeleon:

    I can see where it could be a real problem if kids are allowed to go to school before they know things. Perhaps it might be possible for the school to employee people who undertook to help the kids learn the things they don't know. Then the kids could be called "students," the people who helped the students learn things could be called "teachers," and when the students moved from grade to grade through to the time they leave school they would have learned a lot of things they didn't know. Schools were that kind of place at one time.

    I can see where it must be much easier to have schools in which kids are prohibited from learning what they don't already know, but it strikes me that it's an approach that kind of misses the point. Much better, I suspect, to send the kids to the park until they grow up enough to learn things on their own.

    I also "seriously doubt any of the kids bringing toy guns to school have the proper training, physically and morally to not do something stupid with them." They probably don't have the proper training, physically and morally, to drive automobiles or trucks either. I've seen young kids play with toy cars and trucks. Lordy me, it's a horror. They wheel those things over the floor inside the house, over the furniture, and over each other when they have playmates. I shudder to think of the bad habits they're developing that will endure after they get old enough to drive real vehicles. No one will be safe on the streets or even in their homes, what with those young adults crashing through the doors and over the family cat.

    Kids also play with toy tools, which I suppose they should not be allowed to do until they are old enough to go through vocational training courses. They play with toy airplanes although I seriously doubt that even one of them has a student pilot certificate or is old enough to have a credit card for aviation fuel. Perhaps worse still, I've seen them play with fake money and pretend to buy things with it: should we be raising potential counterfeiters and check kiters?

    Back to toy guns. It wouldn't occur to me to ask "Are they going to excercise the 4 rules, and not point it at somebody?" The last time I paid attention we were talking about young children. Even very young children are sometimes asked what they prefer to eat. I doubt that more than a few of them are nutritionists. When they get a bit older they're asked to vote on activities, class officers, and other decisions. Sometimes they're given mock elections, which might involve campaigns and voting for the Democrat Party presidential nominee of their choice: Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, John Edwards, or Rudolf Giulani. Could more than a handful of those young voters be able to evaluate the issues, know the candidates' positions, understand the Electoral College, and know what Bill Clinton did with Monica Lewinsky last time the Clintons ruled? So I agree that those same children probably couldn't recite and apply the four rules. I know many adults who don't know those rules either but who nevertheless rarely kill more than a few people in the average day.

    In the not too distant past, but before the time schools didn't want to help kids learn anything they didn't already know, it was common for kids to bring toys from home--even (God save us!) toy guns. The school's principal, assistant principals, and all the people we called teachers then gave the kids some fairly simple rules. One rule was "Your toys go in the classroom closet and stay there until recess or the end of the school day." Some kids didn't comply with that rule. The teacher helped them learn to comply with it. It didn't take long. And the kids learned something! Hot diggety dog. Learning took place then.

    In that past, during recess and after school was out kids did point toy guns at each other. Often they said "Bang bang, you're dead." The shootee would then either fall down or say "No I'm not!" and shoot back with his toy gun or his fingers. None of the kids thought to bleed or die for real, probably because everybody was smart enough to know it was a game, even their teachers. I doubt that more than a handful of those kids--either the shooter or the shootee--went on to become a mass murderer. I played that way when I was a kid. Still haven't murdered anyone or shot anyone unintentionally. Don't plan to do it, and don't have any uncontrollable impulses either except when there's chocolate ice cream in the freezer.

    I'm confused by the rest of your reasons for being reluctant to help kids learn in school. In that past I mentioned, elementary school kids and their parents were told that BB guns were not allowed but toys were allowed. (There weren't airsoft guns then.) Hard as it might be to believe this, the parents then did not allow their kids to bring a BB gun to school and the kids did not. Besides, I never knew an elementary school kid who had a BB gun. In any event it was considered unfair to restrict or punish all kids on the earth because some kids didn't behave.

    Real guns are a different problem. I accept your suggestion that there's no one in schools today who can distinguish between a real gun and Bozo the Clown. But is there at least one person in some school who could think his or her way through to the recognition that a kid who would bring a real gun to school might do it whether or not toy guns are prohibited? Are the adult occupants of schools all out to lunch?

    I hate to drop this additional thought on you but it seems to me that there already are laws that prohibit real guns in schools. I doubt that many elementary school kids own them anyway, and of those who steal them there can't be many who have concealed weapons permits. If they sneak their stolen shooting irons into school anyway, they're violating several laws already. So you think that a school rule will stop them?

    God save us all. This civilization is doomed. It has lost its way and has stumbled into a dismal swamp. Instead of trying to find its way back it goes deeper and deeper into the muck, all the time thinking it is making good progress to some worthwhile destination.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2007
  21. macFarlaine

    macFarlaine Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2007
    Messages:
    422
    4 years ago I took a small collection of Victorian and earlier pistols into my daughters Primary school.The children were discussing the Victorians and their lifestyles as part of a project.The collection and the discussion was a huge success.Unfortunately now I would not be allowed anywhere near the school with these pistols.
    I am awaiting the day when the use of weapons in war is not discussed in a history lesson,or maybe history is removed from the curriculum altogether.
     
  22. cambeul41

    cambeul41 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2005
    Messages:
    1,186
    Location:
    Southeast Michigan
    I am afraid that you are not joking. I have heard of school systems in which textbooks must not have pictures of such things as cake or cookies because seeing them might lead to poor nutrition. Birthday salad anyone?
     
  23. ZeSpectre

    ZeSpectre Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    5,503
    Location:
    Deep in the valley
    This has been some interesting reading. Personally I think the whole thing is "nanny state" training ("they" will decide for you and "they" have decided that guns=evil)
     
  24. Robert Hairless

    Robert Hairless Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2003
    Messages:
    3,983
    I await the day when the national anthem of this country is changed from "The Star Spangled Banner" to "Kumbaya." The wolf will lie down with the lamb, or merely lie his head off, and the lamb will run the school board.
     
  25. matt87

    matt87 Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2007
    Messages:
    299
    Location:
    Exeter, (formerly) Great Britiain
    Just wait til history books read: 'the Party invented helicopters and aeroplanes. The capitalists rode around in top hats...'
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page