heritage.org: Hunters in the Crosshairs

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Harry Tuttle

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Hunters in the Crosshairs
by Trent England and Steve Muscatello
March 31, 2005 | |
http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ed033105c.cfm


Hunters always have feared that gun-control activists had more in mind than a self-professed mission to “keep weapons out of the hands of criminals.†They’ve always sensed that the ultimate goal was to eviscerate the Second Amendment and ban hunting altogether.


Until recently, it seemed hunters were just being paranoid. But, as the jokesters say, it’s not paranoia if they really are against you. And to judge by recent events in New York and Texas, “they†-- gun-control advocates and their fellow travelers -- do indeed seem to be taking aim at hunters.


New York has a large, vibrant hunting community outside its metropolitan areas. Assemblyman Alexander Grannis, who is from the nation’s largest metro area, has drafted a bill that could, if passed in its present form, make all hunting illegal in the Empire State. The text of New York State Assembly Bill 1850 reads, in part: “A person is guilty of aggravated cruelty to animals when … he or she intentionally kills … an animal or wild game [or] wild birds.â€


You don’t have to be a National Rifle Association die-hard to see the danger in a bill that makes pursuit of game, “so as to capture or kill,†a felony with a minimum one-year prison sentence and a $5,000 fine. Advocates, of course, claim this is merely a means to criminalize the torture of animals. But the phrase “intentionally kills,†in this context, clearly could apply to hunters as well as those who would mistreat animals for fun.


This would be ironic. Hunters are among the most conservation-minded Americans. They make up large portions of groups such as Ducks Unlimited and the Izaak Walton League. As such, they do a lot of the actual work needed to maintain habitats and manage the species.


But that’s not good enough for another New York assemblyman. Felix W. Ortiz, a Democrat from the hunting hotbed of Brooklyn, has proposed a bill (AB 4306) that would create a state office to “study, develop, encourage and provide assistance for non-lethal management of wildlife.†Ortiz’s concern for the wildlife of his district would result in taxpayers funding the radical political agenda of the anti-hunting movement.


An attempt to criminalize hunting also has even taken root in Texas.Rep. Toby Goodman, a Democrat whose district lies between Dallas and Fort Worth, has introduced House Bill 326, which would make it illegal to “cause bodily injury to an animal.†Again, it sounds harmless enough. No sane person favors beating up animals. But what is to stop this from becoming a law against all hunting?


Texas law already forbids what most of us think of as cruelty to animals. And under current law, uncaptured wild creatures are not defined as protected animals. Bill 326, however, would eliminate this explicit hunting exemption and define an animal as any “nonhuman mammal [or] bird.†Make no mistake: Goodman is trying to outlaw hunting. He’s trying to make it a criminal offense, punishable by a sentence of up to one year in prison and a $4,000 fine.


But Americans can fight back. Indeed, they already are:


Last November, Alaskan voters rejected a proposal to ban bear hunting with bait, and Maine voters rejected proposals to ban bear trapping and hunting with bait or hounds.


In 2002, voters in Connecticut and Iowa defeated proposals that would have over-expanded the definition of animal cruelty.


Meanwhile, Alabama, California, Minnesota, Virginia and Wisconsin have passed constitutional amendments to ensure hunting and fishing rights. Pennsylvania could be next: Rep. Matthew Baker has proposed an amendment that would guarantee the right to hunt and fish in the Keystone state. Arkansas and Tennessee are considering similar amendments.


What the anti-hunting zealots are proposing flouts common sense. No reasonable person supports animal cruelty. Most also understand that traditional hunting isn’t a crime. Nevertheless, misguided legislators and radical special-interest groups push zealous agendas that indiscriminately criminalize whatever they personally dislike.


This breaks with centuries of legal doctrine. Under traditional American law, a criminal conviction requires both criminal intent (mens rea)and a criminal act (actus rea)-- i.e., premeditated murder, not premeditated duck hunting. Reasonable people can disagree over the meaning of the Second Amendment, but it is the rare American who doesn’t recognize the right to hunt.


These lawmakers are attempting to chip away at our rights. That’s wrong, and it’s up to all of us to watch our legislatures and be ready to step in when they try to go too far.



Trent England is a policy analyst and Steve Muscatello is a researcher in the Center for Legal and Judicial Studies at The Heritage Foundation.
 
Anti hunting folks would rather have wild critters over multiply and die slowly by starving to death, or getting hit by vehicles, causing insurance rates to rise.
Animal rights activists generally tend to be anti-human rights, IMO.
 
Reasonable people can disagree over the meaning of the Second Amendment, but it is the rare American who doesn’t recognize the right to hunt.
Say what? I bet there are plenty of Americans that do not recognize the right to hunt, especially those raised in or near a major city. I see no explicit "right to hunt" in our Constitution either (unfortunately).

This statement just seems a little wacky to me :rolleyes:
 
The excerpt from the New York bill, without having read the entire thing, seems as if it would apply to a veterinarian putting down a sick or injured animal as well.

RaggedClaws-

That statement about the "right to hunt" struck me as odd as well, but then I was surprised to learn that my current state of residence (California, but I'm NOT a Californian!) passed a constitutional ammendment protecting hunting and fishing.

316
 
Alot of states have explicit guarantees on the right to hunt and fish (apparently not NY, sometimes I hate this state). Just seems weird that that right would be more "apparent" to most folks than the right to keep and bear arms for personal, family, and community defense. But then again, I think a whole lot of things are weird about the majority of people out there :rolleyes:
 
They’ve always sensed that the ultimate goal was to eviscerate the Second Amendment and ban hunting altogether.

A good article overall, but the author needs to realize that the 2nd Amendment IS NOT about hunting.
 
and Maine voters rejected proposals to ban bear trapping and hunting with bait or hounds.

This one is near & dear to my heart since I bear hunt in Maine every other year

The above quote should read "Maine voters BARELY rejected proposals to ban bear trapping and hunting with bait or hounds."

The vote was actually lopsided in favor of the anti's until the end of polling, when the pro-hunting crowd very narrowly eeked out a victory. The success was SO narrow, that the group who proposed the bill -- in a statement -- actually claimed to be energized by the closeness of the vote.

Scary.
 
Maybe this will be the trigger to finally get the majority of hunters on the RKBA bandwagon.
 
Reality check

"Hunters always have feared that gun-control activists had more in mind than a self-professed mission to “keep weapons out of the hands of criminals.†They’ve always sensed that the ultimate goal was to eviscerate the Second Amendment and ban hunting altogether."

Dream on. As a class, based upon those contacting me for firearms matters, hunters are THE most obtuse and inert gun owners - although the trap/skeet afficianados are close.

Hunters, as a class, have the least firearms knowledge, least involvement in firearms issues and least awareness of firearms rights infringements of all the gun owners I deal with. They also are deluded (as are the shotgunners) by the assinine fantasy that they are "protected" because they only use long arms.

If hunters truly believed that "...the ultimate goal was to eviscerate the Second Amendment and ban hunting altogether." how is it they know so little, do so little and care so little? How can they support Gore (as so many did) and NOT support NRA, SAF or other firearms rights proponents?

Put another way, how can hunters NOT grasp the obvious: Those who seek to ban guns are often the same as those who seek to ban hunting. Wrapping oneself in a coccoon of ignorance, apathy and delusion does nothing to hinder those working assiduously to destroy all firearms ownership and all forms of hunting. Rather, such hunter (in)action aids and abets them.

The Second Amendment has NOTHING to do with hunting or any other sport. It is NOT limited to long arms. IF hunters truly believed that, they would be working to protect our rights, instead of sitting on the sidelines. :scrutiny:
 
Tory,

I wish I had a buck for every post like yours. I'm getting tired of posting in response to them, but since yours was so well worded, let me just pick out a few things.

1. All hunters are NOT sitting on the sidelines.

2. Some of us are as smart as you!

3. Some hunters are ALSO into competition and CCW and involved in RKBA. In fact, lots of us are.

These generalizations are every bit as harmful as the anti-gun crowd's generalizations. "All gun owners are rednecks." "All handgun owners are cop-wannabees". It seems that it's okay to distort facts where hunters are concerned because they are not a majority on this board.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but the snobbery of the non-hunting guys and their attacks on the hunters any more is getting out of hand here at THR. I'm college educated, active in the RKBA, and I hunt.

Please stop the generalizations.
 
Fyi

Here's the memo attached to Bill A01850's Summary Page

TITLE OF BILL: An act to amend the agriculture and markets law, in
relation to prohibiting aggravated cruelty to wildlife

PURPOSE OR GENERAL IDEA OF BILL: This legislation would expand the
existing aggravated cruelty law to cover intentional acts of extreme
cruelty to wildlife as well as companion animals.

SUMMARY OF SPECIFIC PROVISIONS: Subdivision 1 of section 353-a of the
agriculture and markets law, is amended to expand the existing
aggravated cruelty law to cover intentional acts of extreme cruelty to
wildlife as defined in section 11-0103 of the environmental
conservation law.

JUSTIFICATION: This legislation will extend the coverage of the felony
animal cruelty law to cover wildlife. Since the passage of the felony
animal cruelty there have been a number of egregious cases in which
wild animals have been captured and tortured. This bill would allow
these cases to be prosecuted under the felony animal cruelty statute.
It is important to note that in no way would this change affect the
lawful hunting or trapping licensed by the Department of Environmental
Conservation.

The stringent standard of proof created by the "aggravating" factors
contained in the felony law -- that require proof of intent to cause
extreme physical pain or that the conduct was especially depraved or
sadistic -- would remain unchanged, thereby ensuring that only the
most heinous cases of the mistreatment of wild animals are treated as
felony offenses.

PRIOR LEGISLATIVE HISTORY: 2004: A.6507 - Agriculture 2003: A.6507 -
Agriculture

FISCAL IMPLICATIONS: None.

EFFECTIVE DATE: This act shall take effect on the sixtieth day after
it shall have become law.
 
Fyi #2

Here's the link to Bill A04306 for anyone interested. Apparently Mr. Ortiz has never heard of the NYSDEC. Most of the Downtown NYC legislators have no idea what goes on up here in the Upstate boonies, nor do they care to know. This guy probably has some HSUS-like organization pulling his strings.
 
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Reasonable people can disagree over the meaning of the Second Amendment, but it is the rare American who doesn’t recognize the right to hunt.


Just to agree with a previous poster: there has never, in all of western history, been a right to hunt. Game animals have always been owned by the sovereign. In fact for most of that history, poaching was a capital offense.
 
Misinterpretation

"1. All hunters are NOT sitting on the sidelines."

Poor syntax notwithstanding (should read "NOT all hunters are sitting on the sidelines"), I never said all were. What I did say was:

As a class, based upon those contacting me for firearms matters, hunters are THE most obtuse and inert gun owners - although the trap/skeet afficianados are close.​

Again, my post was based upon my experience, and was stated as such. Extrapolate at your peril.

2. Some of us are as smart as you!

Well, I would hope so. Further, I made no claim to exclusivity in that regard.

3. Some hunters are ALSO into competition and CCW and involved in RKBA. In fact, lots of us are.

"Some," yes. "Lots," even. But a majority ? My experience indicates otherwise. I belong to a sportsmens' club. Lots of hunters, not that many NRA / local gun rights organization members, still fewer "shooters."

"Sorry for the sarcasm, but the snobbery of the non-hunting guys and their attacks on the hunters any more is getting out of hand here at THR. I'm college educated, active in the RKBA, and I hunt."

Excellent. I hope you also proselytize the heathens in your ranks.

"Please stop the generalizations."

As Will Sonnet was wont to say, "No brag; just fact." :cool:
 
Tory,
Sorry if my lack of editing on an internet post caused strain to your eyes, lol. I usually reserve prose-polishing for things like books and magazine articles for which I am handsomely paid. I'll try to do better next time. Interesting how you chose not to go after even one of the points I made, but rather my wording. My point was pretty clear and I think I am righteously indignant at being lumped in with the "obtuse" ranks. Your own language is fairly inflammatory, but the mods seem to allow attacks like this on certain groups. Odd for THR. Either way, I stand by the facts in my post, syntax notwithstanding. Your mind could be a bit more open.
 
Reading comprehension and rational analysis

"Interesting how you chose not to go after even one of the points I made, but rather my wording."

Interesting how you ignore the obvious to defend your position. In point of fact, as any objective observer can determine first-hand by simply reading my riposte, I took your response point-by-point and addressed each, in order.

"I think I am righteously indignant at being lumped in with the "obtuse" ranks."

If I had "lumped [you] in with the 'obtuse' ranks," you would be fully justified in being indignant. Unfortunately for your argument, I did not.

For the THIRD TIME, my assessment was quite specific:

As a class, based upon those contacting me for firearms matters, hunters are THE most obtuse and inert gun owners - although the trap/skeet afficianados are close.​

As you have never contacted me, other than responses on this board, you are, unfortunately, not part of the sample group. Moreover, I never said that ALL hunters are obtuse and inert; there will be exceptions to the general rule in any general class.

I've checked your website (excellent, by the way) and you are clearly not of the "only takes the gun out once a year; doesn't believe in the NRA 'cause no-one needs a machine gun to hunt" nimrods complained of. That does not mean there AREN'T hunters that fit the description of those I've dealt with. Indeed, if there weren't a significant number like that, you would not hear the characterizations you now complain of.

As Ben Franklin observed, "We must all hang together, or surely we shall all hang separately." Some in the firearms fraternity need to take up the slack.
 
Let's Help Tory With His Math

Tory,

I gotta (slang) take exception to your analysis, although your FIRST paragraph does mention "based on those contacting me for firearms matters." It would be clearer to include that phrase everywhere you mentioned hunters as a class. But, that's neither here nor there, I'll go right to the numbers.

According to the latest figures thrown around on this and other forums, there are approximately 4 million NRA members, about 15-16 million hunters, and about 80 MILLION GUN OWNERS. So if we go strictly by the figures, the non-hunting gun owners are the laziest and most complacent in terms of 2A rights, since at least 76 MILLION (that would be 95 percent) of them are NOT NRA members. If we were crazy and assumed that EVERY NRA member was NOT a hunter, we would still have only 16 million lazy hunters not belonging to the NRA, as opposed to 76 millon lazy non-hunters who don't belong.

I realize that this flies in the face of your own empirical evidence, but I do believe that John Lott would crunch the numbers and side with me on this one. Especially since I'm a hunter and NRA member, as are many of the fine fellows on this forum.

I am sorry that the hunters in your particular area appear to you to be lazy and ignorant......did it ever occur to you that there might be a large number of hunters in the area who are so knowledgeable that they had no need to contact you?

Just my two cents, from one gun owner to another. I'm glad to have all of you as brothers and sisters, even if we do quarrel from time to time.

Michael
 
i also am tired of being chastised by gunowners because of my choice in sports... posts like tory's are rampant here on thr...

i'm a hunter...
i'm also a duck hunter, and a 'shotgun afficianado' (2 other groups of gunowners grilled on thr). i am also a long range target shooter (benchresters tend to get ripped here, too)...

in spite of those faults, i am vehement about rkba, am a nra member, contact my senators and rep frequently, and carry concealed...
 
Maybe this will be the trigger to finally get the majority of hunters on the RKBA bandwagon.

I suspect that it is more likely that this will be the trigger that completely divorces hunting from the RKBA. If we get special laws and right to specifically protect hunting then why would hunters need to worry about gun controll?
 
As Ben Franklin observed, "We must all hang together, or surely we shall all hang separately." Some in the firearms fraternity need to take up the slack.

Tory,
I do get defensive because I am defending hunting and hunters to people like you and others every day. Funny you should use the Ben Franklin quote, because I was going to do the same. Attacks on each other within the gun-owner ranks are going to ensure we all hang separately. You've made solid points and, as a couple of the above posters mentioned as well, I am sorry your dealings with hunters have been disappointing. In my area, the hunting fraternity is pretty well involved with RKBA issues-- or at least the hunters I deal with are. I don't want to turn this into an endless, bickering thread that gets locked down by the mods as unsuitable for THR, so I won't post further. But thanks for the spirited debate.
Joel
 
Astute computations

MDHUnter makes an excellent point in his mathematical analysis. I suspect the bulk of the estimated 80 million gun owners are just that - mere OWNERS; those who still have the war trophy brought back from WWII, the .22 they shot as a kid or the single-shot 12 gauge they scare crows out of the garden with.

Are they gun owners? Yes.

Are they shooters in the sense we on this board use the term? NO.

Do they do ANYTHING to protect gun rights? Not bloody likely.

Please note that I am NOT criticizing hunting as an activity nor did I ever "chastise" hunters for hunting. I also never said hunting was not another aspect of the shooting sports. My criticism was and remains aimed at hunters who do little or nothing to protect ALL firearms rights. Period.

I suspect that geography plays a major role in the type of hunters I encounter. Here in the Northeast, habitat is being destroyed daily, as farms and woods become houselots and strip malls. The younger generations have almost NO exposure to firearms in any positive way, except certain Scouting programs. Their parents either don't own/WON'T own guns and the hunters still here often stick their heads in the sand, thinking if they don't object to the numerous infringements of their gun rights, they will somehow be overlooked by the anti's. Not an enlightened strategy, or a successful one.

Whether it's banning "Saturday Night Specials," "assault weapons," "Armor-piercing-exploding-hollow-point-cop-killer bullets," ".50 BMG sniper rifles that blow up 747's with a single round," "large-capacity weapons" or hunting, there are well-funded, well-organized, media-aided organizations working diligently to destroy all vestiges of the Second Amendment.

When it goes, the trap/skeet shooters, hunters, benchrest riflemen, Bullseye brigade, action pistol afficianadoes, cowboys and everyone else who ever owned a gun - or wanted to - will be in the same situation: Ostracized and criminalized.

Let's try to keep focused on the REAL problem and act accordingly.
 
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