Hi-Perf loads for the 30 Carbine?

[SaxonPig]

I like the little M1 Carbine but am unimpressed with the 110 FMJ factory ammo available. These are claimed to run 1950 FPS, which is pathetic enough, but actually only go 1850-1860 FPS in my testing.

Started playing with some loads with urban self-defense use in mind. Yesterday I clocked some 86 grain soft points by Hornady intended for the 30 Mauser pistol. Starting charge of Accurate #9 produced 2200 FPS. I wonder how well these would expand at that velocity since they were intended to operate about 1,000 FPS slower. Could be rather dramatic.

Anyone have any experience with working up Hi-Vel loads for the 30C? Any hot factory ammo offered? Is this a nutty thing to do?

 

[rcmodel]

I never had a problem with the 110 grain soft-points available from Hornady, Sierra, and others.

I would rather have the heavier 110 weight to insure deep penetration, and expansion.

I have no doubt at all it would put the hurts on a BG, at 1,800 - 1,900.

rc

 

[R.W.Dale]

Deep penareation and expansion......110g 30carbine????aren't those two terms mutually exclusive

 

[mljdeckard]

I have one, and it's my backup, and my wife's primary, but I'm not going try to pretend to make it more than it is. I have it loaded with 110 gr Winchester HPs. If I wanted more penetration I would use a different cartridge.

It always gives me the willies to hear people tweaking cartridges to make them perform differently than they were designed. Especially when they are OLD cartridges. I don't like +P .45 ammo either. The carbine was designed and set up to work a certain way with certain ammo. If you start tweaking it, it may work fine, but it may mess up the timing and gas system. I'm not playing with the load if I don't know enough about the setup of the rifle to start adjusting the gas and springs. (Which I don't.)

 

[USSR]

I never had a problem with the 110 grain soft-points available from Hornady, Sierra, and others.

I would rather have the heavier 110 weight to insure deep penetration, and expansion.

I agree with rcmodel. The Remington 110gr softpoint bullet in particular is noted for both penetration and expansion, and was used by some police agencies in the past.

Don

 

[Maverick223]

I am going to order some of these; but if you want a little more penetration (with some expansion), you may be better off with these.

 

[rcmodel]

Deep penareation and expansion......110g 30carbine????aren't those two terms mutually exclusive

Relatively speaking, compared to an 86 grain bullet the OP ask about, I don't think so.

It actually does quite nicely.
http://www.brassfetcher.com/30carbineFed110grSP.html

The .30 carbine is more gun then a lot of internet experts give it credit for.
Especially with 110 JSP ammo.

rc

 

[Maverick223]

Especially with 110 JSP ammo.

I am just now tooling up for loading .30Carbine, so I haven't performed any [non-factory load] testing. I would think that soft HP would expand a little better than SP. Do you have anything that shows a side by side, for several loads?

 

[rcmodel]

No, I don't know of any.

I like JSP because some M-1 Carbines & some carbine magazines don't feed JHP so hot.

All the JSP bullets have the same nose shape as the GI FMJ bullet, and are 4-F in every carbine I have shot them in. (Feed Fire & Function Freely)

rc

 

[Maverick223]

Thanks for the info, that is good to know. My carbine has fed everything I have thrown at it very reliably, but I haven't tried HPs yet. If I try HP, I will give an update, but I may just go with the standard Rem. JSP, and call it a day.

 

[JShirley]

The informal testing in medium I've done with 110-grain JSP told me that the little round would be fine for close deer, but probably more penetration than I would prefer for stopping intruders in my home. I'd prefer a hollow point to the JSP for that purpose.

A lot of people don't seem to understand that many lower-velocity loads and rounds penetrate more than higher velocity ones.

John

 

[Maverick223]

Thank you, JShirley. Do HPs run alight in your carbine; if so what do you recommend?

A lot of people don't seem to understand that many lower-velocity loads and rounds penetrate more than higher velocity ones.

Which is the same reason that .45-70 has such poor penetration (not that it is comparable to .30 Carbine).

 

[R.W.Dale]

The deeper pnatration at lower velocity phenomona is well documented but only with sufficent bullet mass and SD neither of which a 110g 30carbine bullet has

 

[GRIZ22]

I wonder how well these would expand at that velocity since they were intended to operate about 1,000 FPS slower. Could be rather dramatic.


You may get very violent expansion and little penetration.

The .30 carbine is more gun then a lot of internet experts give it credit for.
Especially with 110 JSP ammo.


Jim Cirillo liked the 30 carbine for stakeouts. He said it was lacking with FMJ ammo but JSP or JHP turned it into a totally different animal.

 

[mgkdrgn]

Anyone have any experience with working up Hi-Vel loads for the 30C? Any hot factory ammo offered? Is this a nutty thing to do?

You have to remember that 30 Carbine is basically a pistol round, and that the 30 Carbine was never really meant as a main battle rifle by any means.

My dad was a Marine in WWII, and he said everytime they got issued a Carbine they would somehow manage to break it until they would finally get issued a "real gun" ... a Garand.

Also, if it is an older military carbine, loading it with ammo 2X as hot (or better) than it was built for can't be doing it any good.

 

[SaxonPig]

Who said the loads are double the chamber pressure????? Nobody in his right mind would deliberately double the chamber pressure in any gun.

I very seriously doubt the load I mentioned exceeds maximum allowable pressure as the higher velocity is largely due to the lighter bullet..

 

[R.W.Dale]

Cor-Bon loads a DPX hp that may be worth a look
http://www.dakotaammo.net/Self-Defense-DPX/30-Carb-100gr-DPX-Hunter/DPX30100-20/200/Product

# Velocity: 2025fps
# Energy: 911ftlbs

 

[JShirley]

Maverick,

Unfortunately, I sold my carbine (and several other firearms) while building up funds to buy a precision distance rifle, so I never got the chance to try hollow points in it. I've heard that Winchesters usually work well.

Even in 12 gauge, except in very tough game, low-recoil (lower velocity) slugs penetrate more than standard Foster slugs, since the extra velocity usually causes the soft lead to violently expand and sometimes fragment.

J

 

[Maverick223]

Unfortunately, I sold my carbine (and several other firearms) while building up funds to buy a precision distance rifle, so I never got the chance to try hollow points in it. I've heard that Winchesters usually work well.

Blasphemy. If I can find any, I will give those a shot.

 

[MutinousDoug]

My Dad gave me his 1960-62 DCM M1 Carbine in about 1985 or so. He had tried to put a Sears/Weaver 2.5x scope on it in 1969 only to have the threaded holes in the receiver for the mount strip out (twice) from recoil. So I have a virtually new 1.1M Winchester Carbine with 4 ugly holes in the left receiver that shoots pretty well for a Carbine (Holds the black: 3-4 MOA).
1989 or so I meet up with a Colo St wildlife officer who suggested his carbine became a viable SD weapon upon using 125gr JHP 30-30 bullets designed for 1700-2100fps loads (He may have gotten this from the Colorado St Prison guards at the time). Seemed like a good idea but they didn’t feed reliably until I adjusted the barrel feed ramp with a Dremel. At 1700fps they work fine in the gun now and will hole a IPSIC popper at 50 yds (trust me). Be aware that relieving the barrel in the case head area forward of the feed ramp WILL result in an unsafe gun.
I haven’t had the chance to try it in a SD situation (hallelujah!) but it is 100% reliable with the above loads and it still shoots in the black at the CMP vintage rifle matches when the barrel band is tuned for LC surplus or 110gr half jacket reloads.
The poor thing is not much of a collector anymore but it’s a reasonable truck gun.