7.62x39: Weak?

[Speedo66]

I have compared 7.62x39 to 30-30 rounds shooting at water jugs. Also against wood and layered drywall targets. They penetrated similarly and caused about the same amount of damage. On paper their energy was similar.

I do feel the comparison of the 7.62x39 round in a carbine and a .357 Magnum out of a revolver to be an unfair comparison. If you put that .357 through a 16” barrel you’ll add about 500 ft-lbs of energy. Still not 7.62x39 or 30-30 energy but it steps it up a bit.

Get some .357 ammo from Buffalo Bore, fire it out of a rifle length barrel, and you’re spitting distance to .30-30.

 

[Archie]

I'm going to assert the .22 long rifle is a garbage round because it isn't near as powerful as a .50 BMG......

And that is the problem. The question posed by the initial posting herein lacks context: Too weak for what?

For elephant it is probably too weak. For tree squirrel, probably too strong. The cartridge was intended to wound or kill enemies of realm within 250 yards or so; history verifies this ability. I load the round with a 150 grain bullet that puts it in the .30-30 class and suitable for deer within 150 yards or so. (Around here, 150 yards is a long ways off to kill a deer.)

It depends on what one wants to do.

 

[Chuck R.]

And that is the problem. The question posed by the initial posting herein lacks context: Too weak for what?

For elephant it is probably too weak. For tree squirrel, probably too strong. The cartridge was intended to wound or kill enemies of realm within 250 yards or so; history verifies this ability. I load the round with a 150 grain bullet that puts it in the .30-30 class and suitable for deer within 150 yards or so. (Around here, 150 yards is a long ways off to kill a deer.)

It depends on what one wants to do.

Agree 100%!

It's all about context or task/conditions.

Killing a dear in wooded conditions; short-moderate range acceptable
Killing a deer in open country conditions; moderate to longish range...not so much. By those normally encountered distances the trajectory and possibly the accuracy may well not make it viable.

 

[Dibbs]

The 7.62 X 39 does exactly what it was designed to do. It was designed as a mid-range infantry round. As such, it has made it's
rifles, the AK, and SKS shine, in the world purview. Of course, if you compare it to 270, or 30.06, for hunting, it's gonna look like crap.

People who want to compare the M43 to a pistol round,(yet, interestingly enough, apparently haven't discovered 7.62X25, to now) just need to get a reloader's manual, and bone up on ballistics. The M43 is still a rifle round, no practical comparison, IMO.

OTOH, I would be reluctant to put these new, higher powered 7.62 X 39 rounds through my rifles. Sounds like borrowing trouble, to me.

 

[d2wing]

Let's not get carried away, a 30-30 170 GR bullet at 2300 FPS is not the same as a 123 Gr bullet at the same speed. I would use a 30-30 against large game that I would not use a 7.62x39. You are entitled to think they are equal but I do not. As said the 7-62 does what it is designed for. In my experience the 5.56/223 is more lethal as well. Again you can disagree. I don't care.

 

[illinoisburt]

Personally I like the 762x39 cartridge. Inexpensive, reasonable accurate in the right platform, and has enough umphff for critters up to maybe 300 pounds or so with correct bullets and reasonable range. I suspect if the round was loaded with similar profile wide meplat soft flat points we see in 30-30 loads hunting performance could be greatly improved. For now the Hornady and Fusion loads seem to work pretty well. Getting into all the steel cased imports becomes quite variable. I've seen and experienced good results with 154 grain soft points. The 120-126 grain SP and HP steel have been inconsistent - sometimes it's good, mostly they either drill a straight deep line, yaw and tumble like FMJ, or frag but you don't reliable know which one will happen. That said if it's a center chest hit the animal will undoubtedly go down just maybe not where or when you expect.

On the subject of AKs, well I've had them and they are okay, my son loves them for shooting steel, but the iron sights are decidedly lacking for hunting -- too coarse and black-on-black in shadowed forest aiming at brown animals is not the best choice.

 

[someguy2800]

Let's not get carried away, a 30-30 170 GR bullet at 2300 FPS is not the same as a 123 Gr bullet at the same speed. I would use a 30-30 against large game that I would not use a 7.62x39. You are entitled to think they are equal but I do not. As said the 7-62 does what it is designed for. In my experience the 5.56/223 is more lethal as well. Again you can disagree. I don't care.

Your selling the 7.62x39 a little short there but I whole heartedly agree there is just no comparison between a 123 gr spitzer and a 170 gr flat point. Most factory 7.62x39 123-125 grain ammo that I have shot chrono's about 2450 out of my 16" barrel and handloads with CFE black go 2600. I've never tried loading anything heavier.

If you meet in the middle and compare the same 150 grain bullet in both, the fastest load listing in the western powders load data for 7.62x39 is 2291, and for 30/30 it is 2375. Hodgdon give the fastest load for a 150 in 7.62x39 at 2192, and for 30/30 at 2512. So just over a 200 fps gap with the same bullet weight if we take the best of both. Ballistically they are going to flip pretty quick though because of the ballistic coefficients. By my math a 150 hornady spire point at 2291 will overtake a 150 hornady round nose at 2512 at just over 100 yards. At 200 yards the spire point would be going 150 fps faster. At short range though, like 100 yards where most deer are shot, the 30/30 is the hands down winner and flat point bullets in my observation hit harder than there weight and energy would suggest.

 

[adcoch1]

Compared to a 22lr, the 7.62x39 is very powerful. Compared to a 300 weatherby, it is weak. All 3 will kill deer, just got to know the limitations of each cartridge.

Any job a 30-30 is good for I have used an sks for. It works. For varmints thru deer, and for home security, I don't have any doubts that the little x39 is useful. It's also very affordable to shoot. A really big or dangerous game cartridge it isn't, but I love it for a basic utility/truck gun type of cartridge, especially in a bolt gun.

 

[ford8nr]

MY belief is the x39 round got bad HUNTING press as being a weak cartridge because 1) most ammo available was FMJ. 2) most was fired out of marginally accurate rifles.
I can handload 150gr bullets to almost duplicate levels as factory 150gr 30-30 loads. Fired out of a Howa Mini Action bolt rifle I can get MOA accuracy which accounted for a doe and buck for my smaller framed nephew.