Hi-Power Extractor Problems

[BTin]

I have a new hi-power with close to 1000 rounds through it.

I replaced the recoil spring with a slighty higher rate because my carry ammo is +p.

All of my magazines also have the +5% springs in them.

I have had one stovepipe on WWB and a few failure to feed to WWB where the bullet nose seems to get stuck in the top of the barrel, but now I think the casing rim may not be feeding under the extractor.

I have never had any failures with my carry ammo.

And then the other day, my friend bought me steel cased monarch ammo and the gun was jamming with every shot. Stovepipes and FTFs too. One of the jams required the gun to be taken apart, because the extractor claw did not retract the casing out of the barrel.

I looked at the extractor, and noticed that it looked damaged to me. I think on the FTFs, the case rim is getting jammed on the outside of the claw. That would explain the damage to me.

My carry ammo still functioned perfectly after all of this.

I took the pistol apart, and noticed that I can put a bullet/casing under the claw and the claw does not hold it tight, you can tell from the picture. I also noticed that the extractor had a shiny edge and pushed metal where the casing may be impacting the claw.

I am new to guns, so please help me out.

Is the extractor damaged? Does it need to be "tuned"? Does it need to be replaced? Could the issue be with the higher rated springs and the standard pressure ammo?

Thanks for the help in advance.

 

[BTin]

Bump for some newbie help please!

 

[cochise9424221]

keep steel case ammo out of your good guns, only use it in the east block trash it was intended for. Your extractor claw has probably been peened by the too hard case.
It probably doesnt need to be replaced, but only use brass case ammo in your gun.

 

[nitetrane98]

"keep steel case ammo out of your good guns, only use it in the east block trash it was intended for."

I'm not picking no fight or defending "east block trash" (don't know anything about them) but does this mean that steel cases wear "EBT" extractors at a faster rate too or do they have superior metalurgy that allows the use of steel cases? Perhaps a different extractor system?

To the OP, the spring situation sounds likely to me. Try your original springs with the standard stuff and see what happens. Looks like the slide might not be getting back quite far enough. That'll be .02 please.

 

[cochise9424221]

steel is much harder than brass. During WW2 the US experimented with steel cases and as it is much cheaper than brass as a wartime expediant. It was not considered worth the wear on firearms and was not continued.
John Browning didnt build the Hi Power with steel cases in mind, The Russians and other Comblock countries built theitr guns with the understanding that they would use steal case ammo.
Dont run steel case stuff through an AR either.

 

[nitetrane98]

I understand all that but what allows the comblock countries to use it? Do they just count on replacing extractors more often?

 

[cochise9424221]

I would assume they design their guns around the ammo to an extent. However there is or was a different war philosophy as well.
A soldiers combat load of ammo wasnt going to break the gun, the soldiers were disposable as was the issued equipment, and battlefield pick ups would keep the army going forward as equipment failed. The Soviet stragety was based on overwhelming numbers as opposed to a smaller force of well equipped and trained troops.
That being said the AK is a great gun like the Sten it is cheap to make and works.

 

[gb6491]

I have never had any failures with my carry ammo.

Sometimes a firmer grip will help with standard loads in guns with heavier than standard recoil springs. The pistol needs a certain amount of force to compress the recoil spring; part of that is from your hold and part from the momentum of the slide. With standard loads/stronger springs you have less momentum , your grip needs to be firm so that momentum is not dissipated by rearward/upward movement before the spring can be compressed enough to complete the cycle . If it doesn't, you will need to stick with the standard spring for standard loads. Personally, if only shooting carry (+P) ammo on a limited basis, I would keep the standard spring in it. If you plan on doing extended shooting with +P ammo you might swap out for the heavier spring.

Your extractor looks okay to me (I would break and polish that lower edge though).

To me the real trouble with steel cased ammo is that it is most likely covered with some type of preservative (i.e. varnish). That becomes a problem in weapons with tighter chamber tolerances. The preservative becomes sticky from the heat of being fired; combine that with a chamber fouled by residue left from previously fired rounds and you have a failure to extract. Now you have a steel extractor trying to pull through a steel case head. That type of fouling could also make feeding problematic. Bad mojo in my book

Regards,
Greg

 

[BTin]

Thanks gb6491. So it is okay for the casing rim to be "loose" under the extractor? I checked my Sig and it is not that way.

 

[gb6491]

It's hard to tell in the pictures, but it looks like the extractor claw is engaged full depth on the rim. How loose is it? If you slip a round under it (at the round's center line), will the extractor hold it in place if you shake the slide gently?

I'm always wary of doing anything on a gun that is working well (you did say no failures with your carry ammo). Increasing tension involves removing material from the extractor where it contacts the slide below the extractor hook.

Removing material there could necessitate further adjustment to other surfaces of the extractor.

Regards,
Greg