Hickok, Tutt and Wikipedia

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J.T. Gerrity

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After reading the account in Wikipedia about the Tutt-Hickok fight, I had some real problems with several aspects of what had been written, especially the statement that Hickok "rested his pistol on his off arm, took aim and fired." Not only is this not mentioned in the eye-witness accounts I've read, but it just doesn't make sense that he would take the time to do this in a gun fight where seconds can be the difference between life and death. I contacted Marshall Trimble, of True West Magazine, regarding the fight and the authenticity of the Wikipedia article. Trimble has been a published author for over thirty years, taught Arizona and Western history at Scottsdale Community College since 1972, and he regularly lectures about the Old West. In 1977, the governor of Arizona appointed him Official State Historian.

My question was this:

"After reading an article regarding the Hickok-Tutt fight, I have some reservations with certain aspects of the account, primarily with the scenerio where Hickok "rests his pistol on his off arm", takes aim and fires. This just doesn't ring true, and doesn't hold with the accounts I've read. Did this actually happen?"

Today I received an E-mail from Trimble that reads as follows:

"Good question. If you'll send me your full name, city and state of residence
I will forward this on to True West. They require that info before they can
publish Q/A in the magazine.

Here's what the foremost expert on Wild Bill, Joe Rosa had to say:

'I do not know who started the story of the arm-rest hold, but
probably the same one who claimed that Hickok shot Tutt when using a Colt's
Dragoon.

In fact he used one of his Navy pistols from the holster and there was no "fast draw" but
rather a carefully aimed shot, from 75 yards away, while on the move. Tutt who had turned
sideways in dueling fashion, fired and missed, but Hickok did not.

I fear that too many people are misled by the crap about fast draw which
never existed in the Old West, at least by that name. Rather, it was
described as "quick" which means physically quick or "quick as thought" as
Hickok's actions were described when he shot Coe at Abilene after being shot
at twice.

All my best, old friend,

Joe'"

Other aspects of the Wiki article are suspect, such as where it is stated that Hickok "cocked his gun and returned it to his holster", that Tutt was hit in the "left side" (a right-handed person, standing sideways in a dueling stance would be hit in the right side), and that the two faced each other down in the classic "Mashall Dillon" gunfighter scenerio (they were actually walking towards each other when Tutt reached for his gun and Hickok responded).

I've made several attempts to correct the Wiki post, but each time my correction has been replaced with the same erroneous account that I originally questioned. Suffice to say that, without proper checks and balances, any Wikipedia article has to be considered suspect.

For a true account, see "Wild Bill, gunfighter" by Joseph G. Rosa. Rosa is considered the authority on Wild Bill, having spent a lifetime researching the gunfighter, and being the only one who actually was granted access to original source material by the Hickok family, including letters, diaries and other materials. I'd much rather go by what Rosa has to say before I trusted Wikipedia as a resource, especially regarding Wild Bill Hickok.
 
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All logical, intelligent people know wikipedia is not to be trusted very much in anyway.

Some of the information in the firearms and ammunition areas is almost word for word copies from reputable sources. Namely the US GOV and the actual manufacturers.

An 8 year old with a computer and an account can create wikipedia entries all day long. And the saddest part of it all is that the "educated educators" in the schools, primary, secondary, and college, actually take the content of wikipedia as absolute truth.
 
Maybe it's your doing, I dunno, but looking at the general Hickok article, that bit about the Tutt fight says nothing about resting the pistol on his arm, and has Rosa listed as the source in the footnote.



Course, not that many people I see complaining about Wiki ever bother to look at sources or footnotes. Seriously, if you pick a book off the shelf, you check the bibliography for references. Same applies to Wiki.


Oh, and I haven't met a teacher yet who allows Wiki as a source. Course, I left high school before Wiki, and just going to College right now. *shrug*
 
Here is the article in question. The footnote refrences a book called "Wild Bill and His Era: The Life and Adventures of James Butler Hickok" by William E. Connelley from 1933. I doubt Connelley took the time or had the resources Rosa has.
 
Ahh, different article. Different reference, too. Would be interesting to compare the earlier Connelley text to the more recent Rosa text cited later.
I think the general article is much better written and cited. Probably still a few issues but there's discussion for it and appears at a glance to be updated as things come along.
 
Where are the Hickok navy Colts today? are they in a museum, private collection or lost to time? I'd really like to see them.
 
Shooter Jim, good morning. I have no idea whatsoever if this is true so please don't run around saying that I said this is what happened.
Hickok (according to a library book I checked out and read years ago) was buried with his revolvers and some kind of Sharp's single shot carbine. The grave was robbed just a matter of days after he was buried. The person(s) who robbed the grave were never caught and when the grave was discovered dug up and robbed the guns were gone along with a gold watch and an ivory handled jackknife.... Might just be a made up story. I was only 14 years old when I read the book....
 
Shooter Jim, good morning. I have no idea whatsoever if this is true so please don't run around saying that I said this is what happened.
But you said,,,,:D Just funnin;) That is an interesting story though.
 
Now please correct me if I am wrong but Hickok had at least two sets of '51's. One set that he carried thru teh war (or so they say) and a set that was a gift fom a senator or something like that. If memory serves me correct they were Ivory handled and engraved as well. Again, not absolutely certain on this.
 
Over the years Hickok owned a fair number of guns. The most famous were a pair of engraved/ivory handled 1851 Navies that were presented to him by a U.S. Senator following a successful Buffalo hunt during which "Wild Bill" acted as a guide/bodyguard. One of those revolvers is in the Gene Autry Western Heritage Museum in California. The whereabouts of the other one is unknown.

Following his murder he was buried and the later exhumed. At the time two firearms were discovered. One was a 50-70 trapdoor Springfield that had been sporterized, and is considered to be his because earlier photographs show him with that rifle, or a very similar one. The other was a .32 S&W Model No. 2 “tip up” revolver.

So far the authenticity of these guns has not been seriously challenged.
 
I have always been skeptical of the old "rested across the left arm" deal.

I don't see myself wanting my eyes that close to the cap fragments.

Not too mention, you can't really see the sights properly with the gun that close to your face.

rc
 
Found this and thought I would share it ;)

Wild Bill Hickok's engraved 1851 Navy Colt on display in the
Autry Museum of Western Heritage located in Los Angeles, California.
One of a pair of matching presentation Colts,
the other one resides in the Buffalo Bill Museum located in Cody, Wyoming.
 

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Wild Bill Hickok's engraved 1851 Navy Colt on display in the
Autry Museum of Western Heritage located in Los Angeles, California.
One of a pair of matching presentation Colts,
the other one resides in the Buffalo Bill Museum located in Cody, Wyoming.
Thanks for that picture, it's great. I wonder if it's known which one he used in the Tutt shootout.
 
I find it funny that "Wild Bill" was not buried with a '51 Navy revolver or two. The gun he was so well known for.................
 
I myself find that a bit 'unusual' , but since I don't and never did give a damn about James Butler Hickok I'm not going to waste any thought on it. Now, if it was somebody like my boy John Wesley Hardin or Cole Younger I might be a bit concerned....
 
This ones especially for GotC ;)

John Wesley Hardin's '51 Navy Colt :)
 

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There are no accounts from reliable sources that specifically say that he had his Navy models with him in Deadwood. Why wouldn’t he? Pure speculation, but perhaps because he was going blind. Close friends had to help him find his way back to camp at night.

It is also possible that someone who found them among his effects took them as souvenirs. It wouldn’t have been the first time that happened, nor will it likely be the last.
 
I wonder if he could have left them behind with his wife, Agnes. Anyone know what happened to her?
 
''I have always been skeptical of the old "rested across the left arm" deal.

I don't see myself wanting my eyes that close to the cap fragments.

Not too mention, you can't really see the sights properly with the gun that close to your face.

rc''
RC,I once set fire to the sleeve of a perfectly good cotton shirt trying that particular trick with a brass framed ''Navy Sheriff's Model''...
 
3513475237_76cdc9912b.jpg

Hickok shooting Davis Tutt

Here is a link to a larger version of the same painting: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3599/3513475237_d6919a2baf_o.jpg

Rosa's account of the Hickok-Tutt Duel can be found in this book: "Wild Bill Hickok - Gunfighter"

As far as the guns he had, the gun that NobleSniper mentioned has been addressed by Rosa in the same book. He clearly points out several several features of this revolver that make it very doubtful that it was ever owned by Hickok - including the fact the Hickok's name is (was) spelled wrong in the backstrap engraving! Check out excerpts from this book here: http://books.google.com/books?id=p-XlcmRz5dkC&dq=wild+bill+hickok+gunfighter&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=8zGbEnBwED&sig=RvNsWVMnjg7I3c2dJfPoy1ZYyGM&hl=en&ei=B80ESvDLNobqsgPOv-HWAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2#PPA31,M1
 
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Yes, but it was created by an artist who had no personal knowledge of the event, other then what he might have read in some books. His depiction of Hickok matches no known photograph or drawing of Hickok that was made at the time, or for that matter before or later. Woodcuts published shortly after the fight in Harper's Monthly show the scene differently, which is not to say they were right either, but there were a lot of people still living that were witnesses and could dispute the picture if it was not faithful to the event.

The best evidence still remaining today are found in newspaper accounts written at the time, and quotes from witnesses who were questioned and quoted. As evidence they may be questionable, but they are better then pictures of something that isn’t really known.
 
I myself find that a bit 'unusual' , but since I don't and never did give a damn about James Butler Hickok I'm not going to waste any thought on it. Now, if it was somebody like my boy John Wesley Hardin or Cole Younger I might be a bit concerned....




Whilst I can't completely disagree with yah as I married a Younger, you got to give man props for standing in front of another man that is shooting back, and still be able to squeeze a kill shot. Took a set, all to get a watch back.........:fire:
 
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