Highpower score/plot book recommendations and tips?

[milanuk]

Hello,

What do you guys prefer for a score/plot book for Service Rifle? I'm trying to make a more serious run at HighPower this coming year w/ my WOA AR Service Rifle (want to concentrate on one rifle and actually move up from MK :banghead: ), and would like to get a new book dedicated to it. I've played around a little w/ some of the different ones (Jim Owens, Creedmoor) in the past w/ my Match Rifle, so I've seen a couple of them. What else is out there? Benefits of the ones w/ all the stages for one match together, vs. the ones that have all the standing pages in one section, all the sitting in another, etc.? What about the Jim Owens versions w/ the modified MOA correction lines?

Are they even worth doing i.e. consume too much time plotting during slowfire, etc. I've had people recommend scoring the last shot after I fire the current one to prevent having to sit there and wait on the target service, but unless I'm looking at it thru the scope I have a hard time accurately plotting it.

Thanks,

Monte

 

[30Cal]

I use the Jim Owens book. My previous book had the standard grid lines (and Jim's grids are half the value). To tell the truth, the adjustments I actually use are 50% greater than what Jim's grid says (I'm in between the traditional grid and Jim's modified grid).

For full-course matches, I pick up my pencil after every other shot. I shoot better when I don't mess with the scorebook though, so I usually just record light, wind conditions, load data, temp and elevation. I do make sure to plot all of my sighters and any changes I make to the sights during the sighter stages to help locate my cold barrel zeros'.

The local match is 200yds reduced w/ no pits. Things get confusing about halfway through when you've got 10 holes in the target and are looking for #11. For the rapids and prone slow, I just draw a circle showing where my group(s) lies on the paper.

I guess I don't plot individual shots a lot anymore--I use the book more just to record conditions, zero's what I did well and poorly and then I've got circles showing where the groups are.
Ty

 

[Steve Smith]

I have only used the Jim Owens model, but I know a few HP guys have made their own. You could ask in the Comp forum at ar15.com and see if one of them is there.

I like the Owens book with exception of his 1/2 MOA grid which is BS. No offense to 30Cal but logic tells me that anything less than full value is coming short. I know when I am out and put a full value corretion on, I am right where I need to be, and I know the AMU does the same because I have asked. I believe that recording every shot in your book, especially at 600 is very useful for better scores. If you are quick and efficient you can keep up with it.
The cycle goes:
Check wind.
Fire.
(target goes down)
check wind.
mark shot call.
(target comes up)
check score, hear what the scorer says and verify they are the same.
check wind.
fire.
(target goes down)
check wind.
mark score for last shot and call for this shot.

and on and on.

OR, mark your score when you hear it, that way you don't think about it while you're on your next shot.

 

[Jon Coppenbarger]

I find what Steve said is the best way with good results.
I will mark on the outside and inside covers my zero's for each range fired and have a seperate book for each rifle and to keep a round count for that barrel.
I do not really use the book in reduced matches other than to write zero's down like I said above.
In xtc matches I will use it mostly at 600 and a little at 200 off hand.
Off hand more to make sure my score is the same as the scorer's as I find alot of mistakes or missed shots. I chose for them to call out the shot value so I know they have it right and they still make mistakes so its good to mark them in off hand. The only time I do not if I have worked with the scorer before and trust them.
At 600 I will use it most of the time and if any wind I will always mark it.
It it more of the same reason as off hand but want to not have to guess what wind is on my rifle or have to go back to zero to check it so the book keeps me straight. I like to shoot fairly fast after I check my wind and do not plot my shots anymore before the shot comes up as I know where it should be now and might not write the score of that shot down for 2 or 3 shots if the wind does not change to get the most shots off in the same conditions.
I might go like this same as Steve
Check wind shoot
know I made a good shot and wind did not seem to change so remount rifle
Check score and fire
More interested in wind and value of the shot scored.
One more thing I do is to memorize what the wind was and my settings at 300 when I go back to 600.
For me I use the simple method of take my 300 yard wind double it and add close to another half.
So lets say it 1/2 minute at 3 my 600 yard setting would start out like say 1 1/4 minute and will make adjustments from that.
If at anytime I find myself not sure of where I am at at 600 say half way thew the string cause of heavy wind I can always just go back to where I started with that formula and adjust it from that original setting.
At camp perry I always write everything down as with so many mathces and only shooting there once a year I need good feed back from my book.
The charts work IF the flags and other things work out and they are a ok reference for new shooters.
The charts in the books do not match up around here but are more in tune at the nationals, Could be altiture , flags are different or who knows.
Owens books are fine.

 

[Steve Smith]

Yes, I would do the same...if the conditions were really stable and I had an X hold, I would send them downrange as fast as the target puller could stick it in the air, and wouldn't write down the scores as long as I kept hearing the scorer say "X!" and I saw in the scope that it was a center hit.

 

[hipwr223]

I think most shooters spend too much time in the data book. I use a standard spiral bound book and keep the minimum amount of data I need.

I have a spot for each string of fire and I write my start elevation and Windage. When I am done the string I write down any important details, count off my clicks and write down my end zero and make notes as to why they were differnet(if they were). I make a circle to represent the target, and I make a circle to repesent where the group was relative to the center. A quick note about the conditions and I am done.

That is all the data I keep. I would rather spend the time on the rifle or watching the conditions. If you are writing stuff in your book you are wasting precious time that you could be shooting.

As for plotting shots. I think it is a waste. If you are calling good, you will get the feedback you need. The only time I can see plotting shots would be at 600 and that would only happen until I was sure of the quality of the load I was shooting. Once I am sure that the rifle will group 1/2 to 3/4 MOA at 600 then i will never plot another shot.

John

 

[milanuk]

Thanks for the replies, everybody.

I've been looking around on the 'Net, and found a number of PDF files of score sheets that people have made up for various ranges. Right now I have a Jim Owen's Long Range Book, which I've used a couple times @ 600 and once at 300/600/900/1000 (Rattlesnake), and a Creedmoor Across the Course book. Couple little things about each that I would like to change. Might have to spend some time on the 'puter figuring that one out w/ either AppleWorks or Adobe Photoshop Elements (that'll be a slow process for sure!)

Do you guys recommend a dedicated book/binder for each gun? For example, I have that Long Range book, and thus far I haven't spent too much time down there at Rattlesnake, but seems like it'd be adding to the confusion to have to dig thru the pages to find which one I shot w/ my 6.5-08, which one w/ the AR Service Rifle, and which one w/ the Palma rifle?

Part of the reason I'm curious about whether or not (or more specifically, what) to plot/record is that I seem to bounce btwn shooting in some manner that can only be described as I'm actually surprised when the scoring disk comes up anywhere near (as in, with in a minute or two) of my 'call', and when I'm 'on' enough that the scoring is just slowing me down. In either case, scoring each shot doesn't seem to help much. :banghead:

My normal 'drill' is to put the gun up, check the wind (if I remember), check NPA, take the shot, pull the gun down, grab another round, toss it in, write down my 'call', watch thru the scope for the target to come back up, plot the shot once it comes up, put the gun back up, close the bolt, etc. Just reading thru that myself I can see a few places I probably need to consolidate or streamline things a bit

Thanks,

Monte

 

[Steve Smith]

I didn't keep a good data book until I became an Expert. I think that before that I was far too inconsistent to glean any knowledge from it. After becoming an EX, I used the data book at 300 and 600 primarily and that (along with shooting Smallbore) brought me to Master. Sometimes, I would just start seeing a trend in my 600 strings and because it was in the book I would see it and make a correction (like sitting on the left or right side of the 10 right instead of dead in the center of the x). Sometimes your NPA will look great, you have the wind down and everything, but for some reason you are putting them just a hair to one side. That's when the book jumps up and slaps you. It'll say, "look dummy, move your sights!" Maybe it's just something weird with your eyes or brain that day. It can change a low 190's score to a high 190's score quickly.

A different book per gun? I'm not sure. Perhaps I would skip pages and make sure that I only had one gun per each piece of paper. That way if you sell a gun you can give the guy those sheets as proof of how well the gun shoots. As far as the shooting aspect, I think it is better to keep it all in one book. I would keep an XC book seperate from a LR book, but that is a given, anyway.

Shooting well at 600 is as much about rythm and confidence as it is about technique. Of course, you won't have the first two until you prove to yourself that you can shoot it well. First of all you MUST be able to call your shots. If you are seeing a shot marker where you didn't expect it, then that is your #1 problem. All your focus should be on where that shot is being released. Closing your eyes won't help, and if you're doing that then perhaps you should do some dry firing. (Side note, some FINE shooting can be done with eyes closed, but you have to have your NPA and postion down to a T first.) If you are blinking as the gun goes off, you are probably flinching, and that's why you get unexplained hits. One thing that will help is immersion. Shoot so much that your body forgets the bang and the recoil. Consider yourself a firing device or a rest for the gun only, and let it do it's own thing. Just as a construction worker doesn't flinch when using a jackhammer or impact drill, you don't need to do it either. Once you start calling your shots regularly, and you see a few 10s in a row, don't stop to think about it. Watch the conditions and knock it down as soon as that target hits the top again. For me, I pop a round in the rifle as soon as I have fired (don't close the bolt yet). All the while I'm waiting for the target to be scored I'm watching conditions and making minute adjustments in the sights, ready at any moment for the target. That way as soon as the target comes up I knock it down again. Your task, once you can shoot 600 well, is to try to keep the target down in the pits all the time. The faster (as long as you are doing it correctly) and more methodical you can make your shooting, the better you will get. I don't know of many Masters or above that take more than 12-13 minutes for their 22 shots, unless there is some WEIRD wind going on.

My critique of your drill:

My normal 'drill' is to

CHECK THE WIND FIRST, LAST, AND ALWAYS

put the gun up

Check NPA now.

, check the wind (if I remember),

ALWAYS remember.

check NPA,

do it again.

take the shot,

CHECK THE WIND to see if it changed from right before you fired, make a mental note and apply this when your target is scored!

pull the gun down, grab another round, toss it in

don't close the bolt

, write down my 'call', watch thru the scope for the target to come back up

AND WIND CHANGES

, plot the shot once it comes up, put the gun back up, close the bolt, etc.

CHECK THE WIND

Check NPA once more

Deep breath, slowly release until your front sight touches the point you are aiming at, stop exhaling (this should have been aligned with your natural respiratory pause during your NPA setup, btw) and touch her off, watching the front sight intently.

As soon as the recoil stroke is over, drop the rifle butt and get your head in that scope for a change in mirage.

 

[hipwr223]

Monte,

I use the OMNI spiral bound assignment books that you can buy at Walmart. I have a seperate book for each upper I use. It keeps the data organized for each rifle that way and makes keeping round count data easier.

An entry in my data book will look like this: Example from one of my books...

Bridgeville De, EIC 9-11-04

OH: start 10 up 3 left..............96-1x (bad hold/watch follow thru)
end 10 up 3 left

RS: start 6 up 9 left................99-4x (built up on left side of ten ring)
should use 6up 7left

RP: Start 17 up 5 left..............100-6X(good zero favored left a little/NPA)
end same zero

SP: Start 56 up 9L..................99-3X (1/4 to 1/2 MOA left wind)
end 60 up 10L..................99-5X( group center, but big/watch front site)
Bright targets needed 1 MOA el change. both nines lost to el.
_________________________________________________________________
Total: 493-19X

rounds fired: 50
total rounds thru upper: 658


The above is the actual last page of one of my data books. It is simple, has meaningful info for the next match, and it is not cluttered with "non critical" info.
The only other info I will add is if there is strange weather or light conditions that warrent sight changes.

The only other info I could not post was my little drawings of each target and a crud plot of the group to go along with it. Those would follow right after the score for each stage.

John

 

[Freedomv]

I always preferred the old "Master Rifleman score book" although I think it is no longer available.

It has all the information on wind conditions light conditions etc and how it will effect your shot placment. How ever it was set up for .30 Cal and 7.62 match ammo and the M-1 and M-14 rifles.

Vern

 

[Grump]

I have one I did myself in CorelDraw 4 back when I had a boring job and lotsa time on my hands. Separate circles for shot call and shot plot, and use the same square for elev and windage, with a slash between them if both are changed on the same shot.

Then the version of CorelDraw I bought a few years later was 3.0. Anyone have 4.0 or higher so you can "save as" 3.0 documents for me? I'll let you have/use my special version... Gotta get that Windows 3.xx emulator, too.

Anyway, I recommend dedicated books for each rifle. That makes it easier to have your windage wheels accurate (I don't trust .30 caliber windage charts for 77-gr .223s, for example). IIRC, my windage wheels were done from Sierra Ballistics using my load velocities and topographical elevation. Put them on every page, on every section--200, 300, and a 500/600 split wheel for prone SF.