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history repeats itself

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Public references to immigrants from Italy in the late 19th century, a high point of immigration, illustrate the point. The Popular Science Monthly, December 1890, had an article, entitled, “What Shall We Do With the Dago?” It charged that Italian immigrants loved to use their knives “to lop off another dago’s finger or ear, or to slash another’s cheek.”

A New York City newspaper of the time wrote: “The floodgates are open. The bars are down. The dam is washed away. The sewer is choked. Europe is vomiting! In other words, the scum of immigration is viscerating our shores. The hordes of $9.60 steerage slime are being siphoned upon us from continental mud tanks. [Steerage being the cheapest and worst passenger conditions on the big ocean liners often below the water level. One story even had steerage passengers sharing space with a horse of a wealthy person in first class.]

In 1891 in New Orleans there was suspicion that a crime ring was operating among Sicilian immigrants. The New Orleans police chief was assassinated. Italians were suspected. Hundreds of them were rounded up. Nine were tried. Six were acquitted. A mistrial was declared for the other three. Two days later, a mob of 6000, stormed the jail. Ten Italians were shot to death in the jail cells. An eleventh by the name of Polize – described in the local paper as crazy – was also shot and wounded in his cell.

But in order to satisfy the blood lust of the crowd outside, Polize was dragged from the jail, hung by the neck from a lamppost and shot countless times by the crowd.

[This story provides an additional answer to the old question about whether you would rather be shot or hung. The third possibility – both – was offered through Polize. A fourth possibility is convert criminal behavior into entertainment as in the Sopranos.]

The story also illustrates the fear and prejudice awaiting whatever tribes immigrated to America, even those who were the same race and European culture stock. The fact that the children of European immigrants successfully integrated into the mainstream illustrates both their determination to succeed, the social grease provided by education and money, and the relative openness of American society to those with white skin



http://www.masw.org/about_MASW/peter/blundering_forward.html



seem kinda familiar heck if this bit of rabid hatred had fullfilled itself we'd all be speaking italian those of us who survived anyway
 
Back then there was still pressure to assimilate.
Now we have "Press 1 for English"

Different times, different attitudes.

Different end result, most likely.
 
Public references to immigrants from Italy in the late 19th century, a high point of immigration, illustrate the point.

All these folks came through Ellis Island, legally and with the proper paperwork. Was life hard? Sure. Many were turned away for criminal records or health problems.

Swimming the river with no paperwork and no incentive to become part of the culture because it's only temporary is not the same thing.

You wanna build Ellis Island in the middle of the Rio Grand and have them pass through there, let's talk. Otherwise your comparison is absurd.

and the relative openness of American society to those with white skin

That one is just stupid.

Texas and Mexico are only a couple hundred feet apart. It's not skin color that is the problem here.
You really think there is a difference in skin color of folks on one side of the river and the other?

And, as a descendant of Italian immigrants I am quite offended that you make the comparison between the law abiding and the criminal.
 
Another big difference is that those "Dagos" and other immigrants were here to stay, to become Americans, to raise their kids as Americans. Not to Reconquista and live off the fruits of others. Or come here and work for low wages for half the year and then go back to their third world pest hole of a country and live like kings the other half due to the difference in standards of living, all the while lowering wages for everyone else.
 
Back then there was still pressure to assimilate.
Now we have "Press 1 for English"

Different times, different attitudes.

Different end result, most likely.

That is not accurate in actual fact. European immigrants of the 19th and early 20th centuries were no more forced into assimilation than their contemporary counterparts. Most historians argue the opposite in fact. Major American cities saw the emergence of great numbers of ethnic urban enclaves in the wake of immigration. Most/many immigrant families moved into these areas, and many found it possible to exist with minimal disturbance to their cultural practices. It was generally the following generation of children that assimilated.
 
not so sure

the same kinda noises were made about how the italians clumped together in "those" neighborhoods. they spoke that furrin language in the slums there.
the similarities are funny in the way a car crash can be. heck there were signs in boston once "irish need not apply". i saw my last "no indians" sign out west in early 70's

the less admirable side of human nature seems quite consistent the names may change but the crime remains the same
 
Another big difference is that those "Dagos" and other immigrants were here to stay, to become Americans, to raise their kids as Americans. Not to Reconquista and live off the fruits of others. Or come here and work for low wages for half the year and then go back to their third world pest hole of a country and live like kings the other half due to the difference in standards of living, all the while lowering wages for everyone else.

Paco... many Mexican immigrants send money back. Most do not live transiently between the two countries however.

And by the way, the argument that immigrants were stealing your jobs, lowering your wages, lowering your standards, and causing crime was as prevalent then as it is now.
 
Swimming that river makes you a criminal. End of story.

Yes... but let's remember that the vast majority of hispanic people in this country are not illegal.
 
Yes... but let's remember that the vast majority of hispanic people in this country are not illegal.

Oh sorry, here I thought all the hubub and disorder was over illegal immigration.

I didn't realize it was just because everyone hates Mexicans :rolleyes:
 
Oh sorry, here I thought all the hubub and disorder was over illegal immigration.

I didn't realize it was just because everyone hates Mexicans

People get pretty wound up about it either way. We had a thread going awhile back about lawful trade with Mexico, and folks couldn't draw a distinction.
 
Yes... but let's remember that the vast majority of hispanic people in this country are not illegal.
Really? Got any numbers to back that up? I'd be willing to bet that it is at least damned close by now. We've got the 11 million the gov admits to, which is probably more like 20-25 million in reality numbers, with far more crossing each year than are let in legally. Be interesting to see the numbers.
 
Cfriesen, I am talking about illegals, not "immigrants". How do you know where they live if they are not here legally??? There are no lanscaping jobs here in the winter, I imagine they go and live somewhere else.

Cdaddy, once again, the goal of the european immigrants(and middle eastern and Cuban and Haitian etc) was to become Americans. They could not afford to go border jumping across the Atlantic at their convenience. The illegals from Mexico can and do, jump the border, and what incentive is there to be an American if you can raise your family as a non American, be taught in Spanish in American schools, don't have to get insurance to drive, if you get in trouble with the law just jump back into Mexico.... you know what? Forget it, you have all heard the arguments, you know what side you are on. As do I.
 
His research shows that Hispanic mothers here illegally give birth to one-third of babies born to Hispanics. Half of all babies born to Hispanic immigrant mothers are born to those here illegally, he says.

Anchor babies, and if you are using the information in the article to back up your claim then read this
The Census counts all residents and makes no distinction between those here legally and illegally.

Who knows how many are illegals? Dude, I think you are grasping at straws or outright trolling.
 
Cfriesen, I am talking about illegals, not "immigrants". How do you know where they live if they are not here legally??? There are no lanscaping jobs here in the winter, I imagine they go and live somewhere else.

Paco: Academics, with the assistance of immigration aid groups, have been doing research on this subject for three decades.

Self-report studies indicate that legal immigrants do not live transiently because, contrary to popular belief, they cannot afford to. Immigrants tend to occupy very low end jobs, and life in Mexico is not in fact as cheap as you might believe it to be. It hasn't been for over a decade. It is one of the factors driving emigration.

Illegals report frequently investing years of savings financing an attempt at the border. It often entails a risk of life. They are typically in no great hurry to go back.
 
[QUOTEAll these folks came through Ellis Island, legally and with the proper paperwork. Was life hard? Sure. Many were turned away for criminal records or health problems. ][/QUOTE]

WOP was used in reference to Italians as much as Dago
WOP stands for "with Out Paper's"
 
Well, if you say it is so, then it must be true.

It's nothing personal Paco... believe whatever you like. But give yourself the opportunity to actually think it through. The simplest answer isn't always the most accurate when one is dealing wth complex social issues. Being on this end of the 2A argument I'm certain you've had a taste of that.
 
Arguing about the semantics of the situation is pointless. What do you suggest?

Here in South Florida, we don't have the same problem. Here, the Cubans who make dry land are welcome. It's the haitians who have difficulty. Some say it's because the haitians are black. All the Haitians I ever met are hard working, decent people, who don't see prejudice, and don't seem to understand it. When the war broke out, there were a lot more haitian people who were willing to take up arms and defend this country as security officers, than there were any other ethnicity. They know the value of freedom.

My suggestion? You want to live in America? Do something to earn it. If you are illegal, and you want to be naturalized, you should have to do something for us, not to send you back. Offer them a deal. Make them earn it.
 
WOP

Long but more accurate than the usual misinformation tossed around.


If you believe Wiki, it's there too, but I never quote wiki as a single source.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wop#W

1. offensive slang
A member of a Latin or Mediterranean race, especially an Italian.

Etymology: Early 20c: probably from Italian dialect guappo swaggerer, from Spanish guapo bold or handsome.


“WOP” is the English pronunciation of the Ital-Neapolitan word “GUAPPO”. The word defines those who belong to the Guapperia o “Camorra”, a criminal organization similar to the Sicilian Mafia located mostly in the province of Campania (an Italian Province) and its capital Napoli, Italia. The term is still commonly used especially in Central-South Italy (Meridione) to describe those that either belong to the organization or those that are arrogant to the point of inducing a fight. It was brought to the USA by early Italian immigrants from the province of Campania who named those suspected to belonging to the Guapperia “Guappi”, in a similar fashion the Sicilians used the term “Mafiosi”. Widely used in Chicago where most immigrants from Campania settled, one of its native sons Al Capone was a typical Guappo, it was confused by the non Italian population to indicate people of Italian origins, similarly the word “Paesano”. The term has been erroneously explained to mean “Without Papers” because of the initials “WP” by those, Italian descent or not, that have little knowledge of Italian history and dialects. The term has taken a derogatory meaning in North America and for many refers to people of Italian origin or background.

http://www.billcasselman.com/wording_room/wop.htm

Several American dictionaries will tell you that wop is an acronym for "without papers" or "without passport," supposedly formerly stamped on the immigration documents of certain newcomers arrived from Italy. No person has ever brought forward and presented as evidence a single immigration document stamped with such a phrase. Not once.

Wake me if someone says something truthful or intelligent please.....
So far it's just the usual; false statements and made up statistics.
 
Wake me if someone says something truthful or intelligent please.....
So far it's just the usual; false statements and made up statistics.

LOL... I hardly think that debunks an entire body of discourse. Believe as you will however. Sleep tight.
 
many

of my cousin jack relatives from ireland are/were illegal. but just like in ww2 its so simple for white folks to use a color bar to pass judgement. shame about those 3000 chinese interned but hey they all looked alike. funny how there were no such efforts aimed at the germans here in spite of some cause. or for that matter the irsih who were neutral and in reallity aided the germans.
 
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